Charlie Elk

pseudonym of a man

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How I Kill Afternoon Gobblers, the lessons of many years

March 26, 2016 by Charlie Leave a Comment

The thing about afternoon turkey hunting that gives hunters fits is the lack of, or significantly reduced gobbling. Spring turkey hunters have a tendency to assume if they hear no gobbles, there are none in the area. I started regularly killing afternoon birds when I realized toms make other more subtle calls which I needed to be closer in order to hear.

After I spend a morning camped out on my rear, some 2015 first turkey at kill site (13) (640x469)afternoon strolling/trolling feels good. Fortunately, a walking turkey sounds very much like a walking human, so long as the human stops, pauses, slows down and does not walk in a straight line from here to there and if the person makes turkey sounds it becomes even more naturally convincing. Old-time hunters used to call this moseying, not run and gun.
In my area of west.central Wisconsin public land offers the most productive afternoon turkey hunting. The nesting habitat is better than private so hens will be more likely to be loafing, nesting, laying and uninterested in the toms.Nesting turkeys prefer more open, almost park-like woodlands for

Nesting turkeys prefer more open, almost park-like woodlands or edges of short grassy fields. Rarely will hens nest in brushy areas that diminish visibility.  The incredible eyesight of a  turkey is its number one defense. Clearly, it is not in their best interest to get into places of reduced visibility; this makes for ideal trolling conditions.

Trolling for turkeys involves moseying along making turkey calls. Think of it as if you were moving along searching for a buddy calling out their name occasionally.  In this case, we’re looking for a gobbler who in turn is looking for company. So the hunter should yelp (hey anyone here?), cluck (I’m here, where are you?) purr with leaf scratch (yum this is tasty, and I’m content).  Keep in mind the response may be a gobble, but more likely it will be a single course sounding yelp or cluck.  Hearing the quieter turkey sound indicates, of course, the turkey is probably close by, so setup immediately and try to engage in conversation with the bird. Don’t be afraid to call, err on the side of more calling rather than less.  Keep it soft and conversational matching the mood of the turkey with just a bit more urgency.

Another all too common springtime afternoon situation is the gobbler or gobblers strutting in a field with disinterested hens. The gobblers are openly competing for that lady’s attention, but well guys it can be frustrating, to say the least.  Like nearly every other hunter I’ve tried sneaking along an opposing edge of the field, setting up and calling to the gobblers as they get more excited with each of my calls.  Only to have those disinterested hens lead them off to parts unknown. Oh, well, what’s new in turkey hunting?

In this situation, I try, the edge set up and call first.  Not sure why, it rarely works, it’s just that starting with the least aggressive strategy first seems to make some sense.

My experiences continue to demonstrate the fall turkey hunting tactic of scattering or break up the birds usually works better.  Depending on the position of the field turkeys I wait for them to get into a position that gives me a chance of separating the hens and gobblers.  The goal is to get them to run or fly off in different directions.  Ideally, hens one way the gobblers go in another direction.   Most spring turkey hunting articles conclude when turkeys are bumped they leave the county, and the hunt is done there for the day or week, this is not true.  Years of fall turkey hunting have taught me flocked up turkeys rarely move off more than 300 yards and most of the time much less than that.

During my young hunter days, I would rush the flock by running, yelling and occasionally shooting just make more noise for a better scatter.  Somewhere along the line a little more wisdom developed in my head, my running skills declined or a combination thereof, not sure which.  Nowadays I “walk” the turkeys out of the field then setup to call the gobblers back.

How walking turkeys works.  The field hens are more alert to my approach so as soon as they detect me moving in, they start moving towards the cover.  The strutting gobblers are distracted competing with each other and ideally don’t notice the hens moving away at first.   When the gobblers are looking/facing away from the hen’s direction I then yell or whistle.  Toms then start of drift out of strut peri-scoping their heads up at this point it’s time to blow the whistle again in a solid, loud blast, wave and move directly to them.  Since turkeys are birds that don’t “think” more times than not they keep going the direction their body points. As soon as the birds are in the cover, I move in and setup. Wait about 20 minutes before calling.  If the turkeys start calling before that time, answer back.

Scattered turkeys will usually respond within about 45 minutes from the start of calling.  Spring gobblers are known to respond faster because they are more vocal and driven with urgency. Keep in mind the gobblers who walked into the cover at this point are eager to reunite with the hens they abandoned.

Good hunting.

Field Turkey

 

 

Filed Under: Featured Stories, Featured Story, Stories, Think Pieces / Opinion, Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tips Tagged With: Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tip, Wisconsin Turkey Hunting

Charlie Answered Turkey Dog Questions on Outdoor Life

August 15, 2014 by Charlie Leave a Comment

New Year turkey 2011 (640x513)

 I’ve enjoyed participating in Outdoor Life’s forum over the last 5 years. Because  I get a lot of  questions about turkey dogging like Turkey Hunter 39 asked on one of the OL Answers Thread. So I thought I would publish it here for other would be turkey doggers to enjoy.

Turkey hunter39 started by asking-

Q: Anyone planning to use a dog for fall turkey hunting this year? If so, what breed?

Charlie elk could not resist helping out a turkey dogger to be. The thread contains a lot of good information so I decided to reprint it here.

I love turkey dogging it only took one season that would be last year to get me hooked. My dog is a Vizsla there are some of his puppy pics in my profile. There would be more of him and his turkeys but OL will not let me load them up without a Facebook page which I don’t have.

If you Google “turkey dog hunting with charlie elk” a wide variety of my posts and pictures on this subject will come up.

Turkey39–

Charlie, thanks for the reply. I am a member of the American Wild Turkey Hunting Dog Association, new member, and have talked to Jon several times. Jon was very helpful in helping me choose a dog. I will be picking up Steve Hickoff ‘s book, it is on my literature list. You are absolutely correct that fall hunting makes you a better spring hunter. In the fall, you get to hear the turkey’s full vocabulary. The fall is a great time to practice your calling, and more importantly, how to match the call to the situation at hand. Turkey dogging is a small world, but almost everyone that I encounter is interested in it. The common response is….”I have never heard of that.” I don’t know that I want it to go mainstream, but it would be nice to have additional resources available for the new guys. Keep posting the material and I will keep reading, maybe even contribute some of my own. If my pup isn’t ready this year due to age, he definitely will be next year. If anyone else is interested, don’t sit on the fence, just ask. Turkey meat is even sweeter in the fall!

Sometimes we get a little off subject, that’s OK too as JM chimes in-

A few years ago I drove 16 hours out of state to bring a friend of mine who was in college archery hunting for the first time (first time hunting at all for anything besides rabbits). Since we were too far away from my farm and he did not know anyone with private land, we decided to go to public land. It was a 2500 acre property (all woods) and for three days straight the same three people had 6 dogs running around barking throughout the entire property looking for a turkey. On the second day we caught up with them at the parking lot when we went in to eat lunch and asked them if they could leave an area alone for me and my friend to hunt. They seemed nice, and showed us an area on the map that they would leave for us (was a nice big area, so we just agreed and headed straight out without even going into town to buy lunch). About 45 minutes later all three of them walked right past us (in the area they said they would leave alone), and when we walked up to them all they would say was “public land.” On the third day we thought we caught a break because they were not in the parking lot that morning…but nope. 30 minutes after it got light they drove down a trail in 4 wheelers (It was illegal to ride them on this section of public land). We just gave up and called the police and they contacted a game warden who came out. Turns out all three of them weren’t even supposed to be hunting (warden wouldn’t tell us why they lost licenses). Needless to say we did not see a single deer (or turkey) and I have been unable to get him to try it again since….hopefully there are some respectful turkey hunters that use dogs (I know Charlie is one), but sadly this was the only encounter I have ever had with one.

charlie elk-

JM those you describe were obviously lawbreakers and or poachers. We should take great care and never refer to them as hunters.

Turkey doggers do not use packs of hounds. The vast majority use one dog maybe 2 (an older trained dog and a younger being trained) that work closely together to find a flock. Then they charge for the break, hopefully they bark to let the hunter know the exact location so they can all setup and call the birds back in.

Welcome to the American Wild Turkey Hunting Dog Association! Glad to have you as a member. I am sure Jon has given you a lot of very sound advice. When I was debating whether or not to get a turkey dog and what kind he was most kind, open and helpful. As a member you have access to a lot of very good information in the member section of the website. Make good use of it.

What state will you be hunting in?

 

Turkeyhunter39-

I have been all through that website and it is great. Read the pamphlet that Jon sends out as well. Most of my fall turkey hunting will be in KY and TN. Jon has extended an offer to come up to Wisconsin and I plan to take him up on it. I was very interested to read how versatile Vic is as far as hunting turkeys and upland game. That is what I am hoping to accomplish as well. Kentucky has two very short fall turkey seasons, 6-7 days in both October and December. Tennessee also has a short fall shotgun season, but a more liberal bag limit. My ace in the hole is a public hunting area that has a really long fall season and an amazingly liberal bag limit. All combined, I could run my Brittany for about 4 months…which is fantastic. I have access to some wild quail as well, so we are going to go the double duty route. It is funny to me how welcoming the turkey dogging community is, and how passionate the hunters are about their sport. Everyone has been unbelievably helpful. I feel like I have stumbled onto the best kept non-secret ever.

JM, I hate that you had a bad experience with some questionable hunters. I would say that conflict would most likely occur during archery season as the seasons will undoubtedly overlap. I will be hunting both public and private ground. The private ground is a non-issue, but I don’t believe I would turn my dog loose on just any Wildlife Management Area (WMA). The public area that I will hunt is more regulated and it is not very likely that I would run into anyone else, if I do, they will be turkey hunting also. I also lease ground from time to time, and didn’t renew a lease this year because of their dog policy. No harm, no foul. There is enough space for all of us. I wanted to do something different than the crowd, and so it wasn’t a good match anymore. All forms of hunting has its time and place, and I have no desire to ruin someone else’s hard earned hunting time. Hopefully your next encounter will be more positive. Happy Hunting.

JM-

As Charlie stated, I shouldn’t have even called them hunters. Just 3 selfish poachers who thought they were more important than anything around them.

-I wish you and your dog luck in the upcoming hunting seasons. I hope someday I will the time to train a dog to hunt with me. I just do not think I could give a dog enough attention right now (I Work 60hrs/week over the summer and still working on my degree).

 

charlie elk-

Turkey hunters are arguably the most considerate sharing easy to get along with hunters of them all. That goes double for turkey doggers.

TH39, WI has no limit on fall turkey hunting you get as many as you have permits for and the season is 3 1/2 months long. Should you find your way to WI drop me a line and perhaps our paths will cross. To contact me just make a comment on my website or PM me on the other sites you see my posts on.

Check out the January turkey hunt at Fort Campbell, they allow dogs. Also some states allow dogs for spring hunting too. Jon has those posted on the turkey dog site.

You are right on about fall turkey tasting so much better.

How old is your pup?

At 4 months old I started getting Vic accustom to gunfire. A turkey dog must endure very close gunfire more so than any other hunting dog. 

Turkey doggers don’t usually interfere with bowhunters. Turkey dogging is a mid-day activity and the vast majority of bowhunters have already left the field by the time we start. Although they should stay on their stands because I see more trophy bucks within easy bow range when Vic is with me than I do sitting on my butt during “prime time”.

But some bowhunters are upset about anyone else doing anything else in the woods because–

The scent control salesmen and inexperienced outdoor writers have too many deer hunters so freaked out about leaving scent in the woods that they think if anyone walks around without a has-mat suit on; the area is contaminated making it impossible for them to kill a deer let alone a trophy.

Oh well what I can say about these guys. Except you need to get out more. 😉

 

JM–

What do you expect Charlie? Have you seen hunting shows lately? I saw one where the “hunter” said that the hunt was the hardest of his life. He spent three hours in a stand and passed on more than 20 bucks (all within easy bow range) that 90% of hunters would have called the biggest deer of their life. Yeah, real tough hunt.

Turkey39–

I do hunt Campbell and it is loaded with turkeys. The fall season has two segments, so you can run ’em early and late season. The funny thing about Campbell is access, you have to call in and get a unit. I tried all spring to get a unit and couldn’t, it was full every day. They allow you to take 4 bearded turkeys in the spring, so I ate 4 tags. I haven’t had any problems, knock on wood, getting in units during the fall season, very few people fall turkey hunt…it is tough hunting. Campbell is one of the reasons I started investigating alternatives for fall turkey hunting, as it is so vast. I hunted multiple days without seeing or hearing a turkey, and I know they are there. So it got me thinking that there had to be a better way, and that is when I came across Jon’s website. I started doing research, decided it was something I wanted to do, verified I could use a dog on Campbell and the rest is history. My pup is four months old now and he is definitely interested in birds, he just seems to not be quite ready yet for any real training. I am reading a lot about Brittany’s and they don’t seem to mature very early. He has taken to yard work very well and has no problem plowing through the brush, but he still seems too hyper to really focus on the task at hand. Could be my training as well. He has the pedigree and seems to have a good nose, he is just very puppyish. I don’t want to rush him and we are keeping it fun. The weather hasn’t really cooperated with me either. It is either 100+ or thunderstorms. My tentative plan is to continue the yard work for another month or so, mix in as much live bird work as I can, introduce the e-collar around 6 months of age, and take him with me in October for the early KY season. It is private ground and we can just go out and hunt. No pressure and lots of birds. I am very familiar with their fall habitat on that piece of land, so I can help focus his efforts. I am working on getting him to settle down next to me and I will introduce him to the bag in the next two weeks. I am definitely seeing progress, I just don’t want to push him too hard. Let me know what you think. Did Vic mature early?

charlie elk-

Come August the turkeys of the year will be old enough to take some chasing. Turkey hunter 39, you should get your pup out in some turkey areas so he can get a nose full of the good stuff. If you have some wings, tails or feathers introduce them into his play routine. Pups have short attention spans but when they like the smell of something coupled with your strong approval; well that is the start of something good.

Vic was about 3 1/2 months when I was leading him in charging across March’s frozen fields yelling turkey, turkey; those flocks broke with cackling, wing flapping pandemonium and the strong scent left behind for him to inhale. Soon he was spotting and beating me to the turkeys though I’m not too tough to beat. Then we did practice setups, I’d call for bit and maybe spend 5-10 minutes kind of still. A couple of times the turkeys came back that quick and he learned to point at them as they came in. He is rigid while pointing.

We did these exercises until my spring season opened 3rd week of April. Vic was allowed to nose the dead gobblers over good and I would direct him to grab their heads and drag them to me. He really like that game. Then we went for a hike to the kill spot where I had left some feathers lying about. Vic would go crazy sorting out the trail the gobbler approached on. All great fun and I let him be like a kid on his first hunt, but Vic did seem to realize there was something very serious going on.

 In August we pursued turkey flocks, scattered them and practice setups. During all this training I should mention I used a blank starter pistol to shoot around Vic including on our practice setups. From there we graduated to 22, a 410 and then 20 gauge. The first time he heard a 12 was on opening day when a nice gobbler rolled over dead in front of him.

Some trainers tried to discourage me from taking him hunting until the next year. Said I was rushing him too much. But like you I did not put the screws to him very hard rather just let him develop at his own pace while giving him plenty of exposure to what counts. All the while letting him know what I liked and disliked.

BTW, Vic does not know what an e-collar is, my training methods are very old school.

You are in for more fun than you can imagine.

 Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I laughed when I read your last post, as I too have been waiting for the poults to get big enough to handle some pressure. I want to train my dog, but not at the expense of the animal I love to hunt. I am conflicted about the e collar and if I was just hunting private ground, I might not go that route. I am looking at the e collar to keep him honest and out of harm’s way. Also, the fallout of not bringing the family pet home from a hunt would be unbearable. He follows me everywhere I go, but there is always that chance that temptation could end up in a lost dog, especially with a young dog like him. So I plan to use an e collar and a gps collar. I do some traveling to hunt, so those items give me some piece of mind. I have some wings that I am cleaning up…they were treated with Borax as I make wing bone yelpers. I want to make sure I have the Borax off them before he plays with them. I think the time of year they were born in makes a difference. I got him at 10 weeks old in the dead heat, with poults everywhere. Oh well, I am a patient man…lol. Have you had any issues with Vic getting on a scent and heading to parts unknown? I have read about the old timers leaving their jacket on the ground so the dog could find it and they would pick them up the next day…which isn’t a situation I want to find myself in.

 charlie elk-

I have never lost a dog in afield. Good basic obedience is critical. Does Vic cross property lines while in hot pursuit? Yes. Do I wish I could really teach him a lesson then? Yes. Like with an e collar? Yes, let his hair smoke.

Fortunately it now seems we are past this due to whistle training. We use a very shrill whistle that seems to cut through his excitement of the moment. Once I have his attention he has a strong desire to please so he comes back.

I have never used any training collar so I have no way to give a meaningful opinion. Guys who use them swear by em. Except one friend of Jon’s who thought his dog was chasing a deer so he zapped his dog. Oops, it turned out to be a turkey. The dog never pursued a turkey again for him, he used it to hunt other birds but remained confused as to why this dog refused to chase turkeys. Until he loaned his dog to friend who reported back the dog was the best turkey dog he had ever hunted with. Hmm… Guess you have to be careful with those collars. You might have read about this one I think it is in Jon’s booklet.

A turkey dog must be able to operate independently out to 200-300 yards, this is one of the tough parts of the hunt. Where we hunt there are bears, coyotes, wolves and rattlesnakes; I worry about Vic when he is a little overdue for check in. A GPS locator might be in his future.

 Turkeyhunter39-

“Have you had any issues with Vic getting on a scent and heading to parts unknown?”

charlie elk-

Not so far. Should he, I am prepared to stay afield overnight in the last place we parted company.

To prevent this I used Jon’s technique of showing great displeasure and dislike of things like deer. The idea is to get the dog to think you hate deer or whatever he should not chase.

In my area the deer are more numerous than rabbits. Of course as Vic and I hiked around preseason they would run, what great fun for a pup. My reaction was oh an awful smelly deer, no like deer. Vic would then bark at the deer and bluff charge them a few yards to chase them away and come back for his reward. Now he does not care about deer at all, they are just something on his way to the target birds.

I will never forget the look of betrayal on his face when I came home with the first dead deer he ever saw. He sniffed it over real good and looked at me as if to say you LIAR! But he still does not have any interest in deer while we are hunting.

This is good, in addition to turkeys I arrow a lot of deer each year too. But sitting on deer stand is getting really boring compared to all the excitement and action of turkey dogging.

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, The e collar is definitely something you have to be careful with. I haven’t even bought one yet, as I am still reading over the various training techniques and how to introduce and use one properly. I am with you on the overnight vigil if the dog would run off. Private ground, no problem. Fort Campbell, they are going to start looking for you if you don’t sign out. Sign out and stay in the unit to find your dog……? Guess it depends on who finds you, and what kind of day he/she is having. I need to go back and read about the avoidance training…my shoes could definitely use a break. LOL. He likes to carry them around. We still have some basic obedience training to work on as well. He responds well to basic commands, but we seem to have a little bit of a focus problem. Any tips on helping to deal with distractions and increase focus would be much appreciated.

charlie elk-

In a Fort Campbell situation it might be prudent to leave the field early with your dog in order to avoid that lost dog scenario. An old fashion leash would be a good idea, allowing the dog off leash only when turkeys are encountered.

When Vic gets overly spun up I leash him to keep him close until he settles back down. An inexperienced pup encountering all the rich turkey scent…well who can really blame him for getting all excited?

The leashing helps focus attention and keeps the master in command. I keep telling Vic there is a reason I wear the whistle and he wears the collar. 😉

A pup’s attention span is that of a gnat so look for the moments of focus and capitalize training on them at that moment. I believe a trainer of a young dog must be very careful to not crush the spirit of the dog. For example Vic still points and dashes after butterflies, perhaps embarrassing if anyone else sees, but an important part of the desire and drive. As Steve Hickoff reminds desire must be there it is the one thing you cannot train into a dog. So if you stop the dog constantly from chasing he might lose interest.

 Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, Good tips. Do you have a suggestion on leash length? I have a 20 foot check cord that I let him explore with, especially when we’re someplace new. That really isn’t conducive for a hunting situation though. Of course, I have a 6 foot leash as well. I have found that he does calm down when I leash him, so that might very well work. I guess in my mind, I am having trouble imagining the scenario. I still don’t know if he will point, then flush; point only; flush only. In the leash scenario, are you putting the dog on the leash after the flush, so he calms down for the calling? I know Jon will leash his dogs until he gets to a promising area, and I can see leashing the dog for the walk out when the hunt is over. Can you give me a scenario when you would put Vic on a leash during the hunt?

charlie elk-

I have never used a check cord, too long in woods and as a turkey dog first, Vic needs to range wide. We just use a 4′ leash. My favorite for turkey hunting is the Mendota British-Style Slip Lead in 4 foot length, do a search on Cabela’s to see it. For Vic and I this is just the right size on turkey setup and when necessary for spin down time. It is fast to put on as it slips over his head so you don’t have to find the clip and loop on his collar.

During Vic’s first season, hopefully only because of his youth, he would get over stimulated (spun up) and start dashing about, obviously not hunting just going through the motions at a high rate of speed; this is an example of leash time for spin down. I don’t treat this as punishment, I talk to him a sympathetic soothing tone telling him what and how we need to hunt. When he sees this lead in my hand he now comes over and sticks his head through the loop as it signifies something really good might be getting ready to happen like a turkey becoming dead or I’m taking him to a more game rich area.

The lead was used to teach Vic to “sneak”. Sometimes turkeys are feeding on the other side of a field; if the dog just charges across at the turkeys they flush as a group. The better strategy is heel the dog and sneak in as close as possible ideally so Vic can run into the center of the birds to scatter them all directions. My command to Vic for this is “sneak”, he knows the difference between heel and sneak. It is cute when he sneaks, he crouches down with me and pads lightly.

Another leash scenario is when hunting private land you must be careful of the property lines in order to maintain good neighborly relations. So Vic gets leashed when we are getting close to the lines. I preferred hunting large tracts of public land during Vic’s rookie year in order to avoid these.

Trust me, when you need to leash your pup, you’ll know it.

Yesterday, Vic and I went out scouting we encountered a flock of about 20 feeding in hayed barley field. Told Vic to sneak, we did the crouch to the end of an adjoining cornfield. On command “Turkeys Get Em” – Vic slipped 2 rows into the corn and charged down the row until he was opposite the turkeys, turned into them…

It was a beautiful heartwarming sight all those turkeys, surprise putting & cackling, flying to different areas.

The kee-kees and assembly yelps started before we left the area, clearly those turkeys would have been callable to the gun.

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I will check into that leash. Thanks for the nuts and bolts. I like the idea of “sneak” and will see if Max will take to that. I have been contemplating the command for charging the flock and will probably try “bust ’em.” Any thoughts on what you wish you had done for your first “dry run” or what you did do that worked very well?

charlie elk–

Each dog has a different personality and they each seem to understand our language and inflections with differing levels of comprehension & excitement. So as long as the dog comprehends what is necessary the chosen command does not matter. As long as the master is consistent in its use.

Usually Vic busts the flock on his own. Only when I spot the field flocks do I take control. Otherwise I trust Vic will sniff em out and charge on his own, just wish I could figure out how to get him to bark and let me know about it.

I do like to use different commands than those in the “book” for safety reasons. Like “kennel” I use a different word when its time to get in the truck. Around here there is an unusually high incidence of hunting dog theft. Also, I allow Vic to be a little aggressive toward strangers, I ask companions to not give him any commands.

That way, hopefully if someone stops and orders Vic to Kennel he’ll bark and find me or bite them if they try to grab him.

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, Do you use a bag for Vic? Max is white, so we have to use the bag. Any suggestions for getting him to like the bag?

 charlie elk–

Vic is deer colored, he blends in really well so he usually wears a wide reflective orange collar or orange vest which easily slips off for setup. During cold weather, because of his short hair mrs elk made some camo vests to keep him warm. Vic has quite the wardrobe, snow, brown, gray, green camo and orange vests both nylon and fleece. Depends on the weather and where we are going to hunt.

Glad you asked, I have been meaning to post some pics of him in his camo on my website. I’ll try to get that done this weekend.

In Steve Hickoff’s book he describes how to get a dog blind/bag tolerant.

 Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I really need to order that book. Thumbs up to Mrs. Elk for making the vests. My wife also sews and is making some custom bags for me. I need something really lightweight for early season and a fleece one for late season. I checked out that leash you recommended online and I think it is available at my local Bass Pro Shop so I will check it out in person. There is one thing in particular that I haven’t decided on and that is water transport in the field. Max drinks a ton and I am not sure a couple of bottles of water in my vest is going to be enough. I will be dealing with warm weather for a lot of my fall turkey season, and a good water source isn’t always readily available in some of the areas. How much water do you carry and how do you do it? At this point, as I go through the mental checklist, I feel like I need to take a mule with us. LOL. Water, blind bag, leashes, calls. Have you encountered the same problem or do you have a minimalist approach you would like to share?

 

charlie elk–

Minimalist while turkey dogging? Let me know when you figure that out. 😉 My vest gained at least 30 pounds and doubled in bulk when Vic joined me.

I have my calls down to 2 wing bones and a slate.

Water is heavy and necessary for an extended warm weather hunt. I carry 2 one quart water bottles, mostly for Vic I don’t drink much.

Tried one of those bladder type re hydration things too cumbersome to operate.

On really hot days we woodlot hop with a couple gallons of water in the truck or boat.

As far as container I just lug the proper size plastic juice bottles and when they get icky throw em away.

 

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I am laughing because I keep looking at the gear and I am wondering just how I am going to haul it all. Glad to see that I am not alone. I have actually been thinking about how I can divide up some of my hunting so that we circle back to the truck. I am also considering carry a tub with water in it as a dunk tank for Max on really warm days…I might see 90 plus degree days. Circle back to the truck, hydrate, and dunk him to cool him off. For the fall, I use wing bone calls, mouth calls, and a tube call, so they are not that bulky. I basically need shells, calls and a therma cell. No blind, no decoys. Realistically, how long do your hunts average? Some of my places we could cover in an hour or two, some we couldn’t cover in a full day. Do you feed Vic between wood lots when you are putting in a long day? Have you ever tried to run Vic and harvest a turkey with a bow?

 charlie elk–

Well TH39, Jon uses a backpack, he carries all the stuff we do plus a pop up blind and chair.

On really hot days I plan a series of shorter hunts and return to the truck or boat. Many hot day hunts take place in river valleys. Not only does Vic need resting, I need resting more than he. 😉

If I need food on a hunt then I offer Vic food too.

No on the bow; I have killed numerous turkeys with arrows and have found I just don’t care for it. This may sound strange but I do not find any extra challenge in taking a turkey with a bow. For it is about the same as shotgun, so I just use the shotgun. Plus with a shotgun the turkeys do not flop away requiring tracking. Although, with a turkey dog tracking is no big deal.

Last spring a neighboring hunter arrowed a gobbler but it got back up and ran away. He mentioned this to me, I told him about my turkey dog. In about 10 minutes Vic found the turkey dead 250 yards away from point of shot. The hunter had thought the turkey survived.

Forgot to answer your question about how long does hunt last.

Vic was a pup last season, his attention span was short so at first a couple of hours at a time or less depending on his attention. Sometimes we just leash timed out, spun down, while we practiced being setup with some cold calling. Other times Vic would start hunting for himself rather than with me.(very bad habit for a hunting) Then it was back to the truck, until he recovered and settled down.

Typical day last season; I would go out bow hunt deer early morning until 10. Come back get Vic and hunt until 3-4 in the afternoon. Then Vic spent resting time with mrs elk while I went back out deer hunting

Turkeyhunter39–

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I have noticed a change in Max over the last week or so, it seems he is starting to understand what I want him to do. Not perfect mind you, but he seems much more focused when we are going through exercises. I have noticed from your comments that you really focus on Vic having fun along with getting down to business. I decided I would relax some and Max has responded well. I mentioned bow hunting for turkeys due to season length. With the exception of Campbell, both of my typical states have really short shotgun seasons. With a bow, I have months. I have considered just taking Max and putting him in a blind with me, a little bonding, and let him get good and excited over a fresh kill. I plan to take him out in a week or so and see if we can’t get on a flock…see what he does with it. I have roughly 6 weeks until we could potentially start chasing birds on Campbell. I am planning to run him, carry a gun, keep expectations low and see how he does. A lot of trial and error headed my way. I guess I am a little unsure and don’t want to mess him up, as he is a good dog.

charlie elk–

TH39, this has been an enjoyable exchange, thank you.

If a bow was the only way I could turkey hunt, well then bow hunt it is. Please do not let my comments about that discourage you and anyone else who is reading. I am not against bow hunting turkey. In WI we are blessed with a 3 1/2 month fall season, bow or gun, I just choose gun.

If you would like to write about Max and your experiences, Jon would love to post them on www.turkeydog.org and of course www.charlieelk.com complete with any pictures you would like to share. The more turkey doggers the merrier.

Turkeyhunter39–

Charlie Elk, I too have enjoyed the exchange. I have learned a lot. It has been nice to get practical advice. I plan to post our adventures as the season progresses. I will keep you posted on the training and Max’s antics. I hope others who are interested will come across these posts and join in on the fun of turkey dogging. Good luck this fall. Check back periodically, as I am sure I will need additional advice. LOL.

charlie elk–

Oh yes Th39 there will some Max antics and I will love to hear about them.During hunting season I become what the OL editors lovingly refer to as a ghost. So if you have a story or two you could also email me at elk@charlieelk.com Good hunting and have a grand time building a relationship with Max.

Full Outdoor Life thread can be viewed here –

 

 

 

 

Filed Under: Fall Turkey, Turkey Hunting Tagged With: Fall turkey, hunting, Turkey Dog Hunting, Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tip, Wild Turkey, Wisconsin Turkey Hunting

Wind and Wild Turkey Hunting

March 1, 2014 by Charlie Leave a Comment

Many small things go into a successful turkey hunt.

Many small things go into a successful turkey hunt.

For the most part wild turkey hunters do not like windy days.  The wind makes it harder for hunters  to hear the turkeys and for the turkeys to hear the hunter’s calls.  Not sure about latter.  A turkey’s hearing is so fine tuned they can probably hear the hunter’s calls it’s just that the hunter who can’t hear the turkey’s response.  Blowing wind masks the sound of approaching turkeys perhaps causing a hunter to give up their setup prematurely in the mistaken belief there are no turkeys out and about.

Questions not usually considered or discussed much:

  • Does wind alter a turkey’s behavior?
  • If so how can a turkey hunter change strategies to bag a gobbler?

    Excellent article: Let the Wind Blow a Bird Your Way by Judd Cooney. Get a copy and enjoy.

    Excellent article: Let the Wind Blow a Bird Your Way by Judd Cooney. Get a copy and enjoy.

An article by Judd Cooney in the March 2014 Fur-Fish-Game titled Let the Wind Blow a Bird Your Way, Wild Turkey Tactics

This article got me thinking about wind and turkeys on a deeper level than in the past.

Mr. Cooney writes:

I speculate that turkeys, being heavy-weight gliders, have a tough time navigating on the wing through tree branches – as any hunter who has heard them going to coming from a roost in a thicket might attest. Flying into the wind gives them better control, much as a bush pilot always tries to land into the wind.  It also makes sense that turkeys  feel more comfortable feeding into the wind, when it is blowing with and not against the natural lay of their feathers.

Good observation there Mr. Cooney I too have noticed turkeys seem to prefer facing the wind.  This is why a setup with the wind on the hunter’s back usually works out better.  Not only will the wind carry the sound of your call more effectively… The turkeys are usually already pointed and upwind up wind.  As on longtime deer bowhunter having the wind at my back doesn’t fell quite right because deer will smell the hunter and be gone.  Fortunately, turkeys on the other hand have no sense of smell.   However, I had not considered the wind effect on determining a turkey’s fly down direction. As I think back over past hunts where the turkeys went the “wrong” way it was very likely that the wind had something to do with it.

There is more in Judd Cooney’s article explaining his observations and conclusions regarding wild turkey behavior in the wind.  Hunting turkeys on those particularly windy spring days is more challenging.  A hunter with a good understanding of all the things affecting turkey behavior is better able to tip the odds in their favor.  This is another tidbit of information to help in that quest.

Good hunting.

Also read tips in  How to Hunt Wild Turkeys in Wind & Rain

Filed Under: Think Pieces / Opinion, Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tips Tagged With: Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tip, Wild Turkey, wind

Turkeys and Poults Find Them During the Summer

July 22, 2013 by Charlie Leave a Comment

The poult watch is a popular summer time activity of turkey hunters; well maybe not

Wild turkey hen with brood of poults. photo by Kevin Cole

Wild turkey hen with brood of poults.
photo by Kevin Cole

the casual turkey hunter but certainly those who are the hard bitten turkey hooked type of hunter.  Many hunters I have talked with lately see no sense to scouting turkeys now.  After all  turkeys will, most likely, not be in the same areas come September 14th Wisconsin’s 2013 fall opening date.  Besides these hunters add the cover is so thick you can’t see the birds anyway.  Well maybe there is some truth to that on both accounts…

Will turkeys be somewhere else come the opener?

Maybe, maybe not.

Turkeys in my section of Wisconsin are wide ranging they can be one place one day and somewhere else the next.  You just never know because they do things for turkey reasons.  Heck during the fall season on any given day turkeys could be all over in one area and gone somewhere else the next.  Turkeys are very random creatures so no matter the time of year turkeys might be somewhere other than where they were last seen.

What is the definition of scouting?  I think it means different things to each hunter.  To me it does not matter if you call turkey observing scouting or whatever.  I simply  like watching turkeys period.  Observation is a prime method of learning and there is a lot to learn about turkeys.  But first you have to find turkeys to observe.

Contrary to the conclusion some spring only hunters come to. Turkeys respond to calls year round.  You can even call turkeys during the summer months. During the summer I like to find and watch hens with broods so I use hen talk such as the assembly call, putt, clucks, and  feeding purrs young poults instinctively respond quickly to these calls.  When the hen calls poults pay attention because their lives depend on it for survival.  In the case of alarm putts and assembly calls they must come quickly so the hen can shepard them out of danger.

Wild turkey poults must feed extensively during summer months.

Wild turkey poults must feed extensively during summer months.

My goal using a call is to locate the poults not necessarily to call them in as I would while hunting in order to get a shot.  I like to find the birds then just shutup and watch them interact while going about thier business.  Dense cover in fields and woods frequently inhibits the ability to see.  This is a two way street, the turkeys can’t see well either which many times causes them to use their wings to get above the cover or they may fly into trees for a look around.  Too often we think of turkeys as ground birds during the day and tree birds while they roost at night.  In reality turkeys especially the young are in the treetops more than we think.  Dittos for the use of their wings.  Sometimes after making some calls the turkeys will flutter and hover a bit much alike a hummingbird does up above ground cover to get  look.

Turkeys most preferred summer food is insects from the smallest of gnats to large grasshoppers.  Find a good source of insect life in good turkey habitat and you should find the birds.  Don’t over look areas in and around water.  Not only does water concentrate insects it also holds all kinds of high protein morsels such as crayfish, tadpoles, frogs, snails and many types of aquatic bugs.  I have seen water feeding turkeys dunk there heads underwater to feed on these.

Turkeys prefer eating insects and other high protein critters.

Turkeys prefer eating insects and other high protein critters.

Filed Under: Fall Turkey, Think Pieces / Opinion, turkey hunting tips Tagged With: poult watch, turkey hunting tip, wild turkey scouting, Wisconsin Turkey Hunting

Scare Turkeys to Call Them In (an answer for Ray Eye)

April 5, 2013 by Charlie 2 Comments

http://www.dreamstime.com/-image28886831In Ray Eye’s last book “The Turkey Hunter’s Bible” he wrote that he did not understand why anyone would scare a bunch of turkeys before attempting to call them back in.  His reference was primarily regarding the common fall tactic of scattering a flock.  Ray makes his point about this tactic being counter productive that it’s better to call undisturbed turkeys.  Well, that works too, I’ve done it many times.  But there are situations in spring and fall that scaring turkeys does increase your chances of calling them back in.

I must admit I feel a little apprehensive about disputing anything Ray says, after all  I respect  him as  an expert turkey caller and hunter.  Be that as it may I have had great success calling in scared turkeys and I will at times  scare them on purpose.

When to scare turkeys in the spring?

You find a mixed a group of turkeys out in a field with the toms strutting for the hens who are not paying a lot of attention to the wannabe suitors.  Most hunters setup, attempt to call and lure  the turkeys over to them.  In most cases these turkeys ignore the hunter’s overtures continuing to attend to the turkey business at hand.  Think of these turkeys as comfortable turkeys.  They are doing what they want to do in what they consider good company with no reason to go anywhere else.

What to do now?

As long as the turkeys are content they have no reason to investigate you or any other turkey that may desire to compete with them.  Time to shake up their confidence.  In this situation I sneak, as best I can as close as possible and then rush them in an attempt to send the hens one way the gobblers the other.  Now you have turkeys that are no longer comfortable or complacent rather the turkeys are nervous and their ingrained behavior pattern urges them to regroup.

I move to where the hens were and setup, many times this requires hiding in plain sight.  Wait about 10-15 minutes to begin calling.  Usually the gobblers are back within 30 minutes of calling.  Bang!

Ray’s book contains good advice and I recommend it.  It’s just that unlike Ray Eye  I am not an pro turkey  caller so comfortable turkeys feel no  reason to come on over to visit my calls.  My tactic is to make them uncomfortable and vulnerable.  Vulnerable turkeys are killable turkeys.

Filed Under: Spring Turkey, Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tips Tagged With: Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tip, Wild Turkey, Wisconsin Turkey Hunting

How to Legally Bait Wild Turkeys

March 3, 2013 by Charlie 1 Comment

audio-baited-turkey

After aggressive calling the evening before. This public land wild turkey was waiting for me the next morning and came in without hesitation.

The baiting of wild turkeys with food is banned in all states with turkey populations unless you have a permit to capture and relocate turkeys or a depredation hunt.

However, what I have in mind and the method I use, particularly during the spring turkey hunt is audio baiting.

Audio Baiting

It’s no secret turkeys are attracted by “Turkey Talk”, the sounds made by other turkeys.  After all, that is why most turkey hunters make or purchase several different styles of turkey calls.  Some hunters have bought into the notion that turkeys become call shy, and you should not call when you are not hunting.  Unless you are a terrible caller or cause a big human disturbance entering and leaving the hunting area, you will not scare or educate turkeys by making turkey sounds.  By the way,  some of the worst turkey calls I have ever heard came out of the beaks of turkeys.

How it works

The evening before your hunt decide where you would like a gobbler to be the next morning, the approximate area.  The tom probably will not fly into the exact tree you desire, but he may get close to it.  The goal is to pull a wandering gobbler or two into the area you can hunt come morning.

Locate a prominent open location where sounds you make will have the best chance of traveling the greatest distance possible.  Trees, vegetation, and hills obstruct or absorb sound.  Some unobstructed sound corridors are necessary. Another method is to move quietly along a trail audio trolling; picture floating a river casting in likely spots only you are using audio lures rather than fishing lures. Think of it as audio chumming.

If your season is open and it is legal to take your gun on this setup just in case a gobbler shows, after all, you are in a turkey woods that contains turkeys and you never know when one is going to show.  At least one-third of all my spring turkeys are taken late afternoon/early evening.

After setting up start calling; using yelps, cackles, purrs, and clucks; increasing the volume and intensity as sunset approaches.  Guide your calling by imagining a couple of hens sparring with each other over the best roost trees.  Of course, as you call, listen for an answering gobbler and if you hear an answering gobble begin calling as you would during any other setup.

Assuming you heard no turkeys going to roost, understand, this does not mean there are not any turkeys in the immediate area.  If you have no other “for sure spot” at which to start in the morning, arrive at the last evening’s calling location before gobbling time.  Many times I hear the gobblers without doing anything else, so all that remains is to pick a good setup location and go about calling em in.   If you don’t hear anything owl hoot or tree yelp and listen, then proceed with your hunt in the usual manner.

Late in Wisconsin’s 2012 spring turkey season a friend hunting in northern Wisconsin called me for advice about finding a turkey.  He is a very experienced turkey hunter accustom to success all over the country.  But he wanted to kill a turkey on his property, something that had eluded him for many years.  He described gobblers roosting along the property line of his land but in the morning they promptly flew into the neighbor’s field, strutted and faded away.

I suggested that he should try audio baiting as previously described in order to pull the turkeys deeper into his land in the hopes of then setting up between the turkeys and field.  My grateful buddy called the next day with the happy news it worked.  He had killed his first ever gobbler on his property shortly after fly down and admitted he had thought I was crazy suggesting the audio baiting strategy.

slate call dressed 2 ways

Update: Kirkland Warblers and Wild Turkeys audio baiting.

The above-linked update article covers wild turkeys being motivated to move into new areas with the use of calling.  Wildlife biologists are using audio baiting tactic to get Kirkland Warblers, sage grouse and prairie chickens onto actively managed habitat.

Filed Under: Spring Turkey, Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tips Tagged With: turkey hunting tip, Wild Turkey, wild turkey scouting, Wisconsin Turkey Hunting

Turkey Call with Pen Barrel

June 4, 2012 by Charlie 1 Comment

Turkeys can be called in with a wide variety of things, even your common ink pen.

Turkeys can be called in with a wide variety of calling implements.  From all types of friction calls like box and pot calls to wind calls such as trumpets, wing-bones and yes even a common everyday ink pen.  So if you forget your calls as I did one day—–
More accurately I did not forget my calls so to speak; as I was on my way out to hunt something else. There was a group of toms in a field I had permission to hunt. Then I discovered the box call usually kept in glove box was missing, there was the pen. I got out rushed the toms to break em up, only one peeled off a different direction from the rest. I set up in a hurry wearing a blue and black plaid flannel

Smile the Gods did, the gobbler sported three beards

shirt, smeared a bit of dirt on my face, the shotgun was mod choke loaded with #6 Fiochhi pheasant and sometimes as in this case the turkey gods of the hunt smile on you.

[stream flv=x:/www.charlieelk.com/pencall.flv img=x:/www.charlieelk.com/turkeycall.jpg embed=false share=false width=500 height=378 dock=true controlbar=over bandwidth=high autostart=false /]

Filed Under: Humor, Stories, Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tips Tagged With: ink pen turkey call, turkey hunting tip, wild turkey story, Wisconsin Turkey Hunting

Late Spring Gobbler Tip

March 17, 2012 by Charlie 2 Comments

During the late spring seasons gobbler yelps get a better response than hen yelps.  Breeding is winding down, hens are tending nests, the gobblers are losing testosterone and looking to reform into bachelor flocks (they hang in these all summer) in order to find each other they yelp and cluck.  Not aggressively just in a where are you sort of way.
To locate toms in the late spring season many hunters make the mistake of listening for gobbles which are fewer, rather they should listen for the gobblers yelping and clucking to each other.
Bottom line during the last 2 seasons in WI most hens have been bred, the guys are tired of the woman talk and looking to start up the guy talk again.

Filed Under: Spring Turkey, Turkey Hunting Tagged With: Turkey Hunting, turkey hunting tip

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