Charlie Elk

pseudonym of a man

Wisconsin 2018 Fall Turkey Drawing – Canceled

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Starting in 2018 the state of Wisconsin will no longer require hunters to enter a drawing for their fall turkey license.  All fall turkey authorizations will be sold over the counter or more accurately via the internet at Go Wild.

I do not know when this decision was made or if there was a press release, I missed it.  As new hunting seasons approach, I don’t feel complete until all my new licenses/tags/permits–no wait–the correct term is changed; license, tags, and permits have become authorizations.

When I purchased my Conservation Patron authorization, I always apply for all auths available this prevents forgetting to submit the applications later.   Panic set in when the fall turkey auth was already part of my package!  What happened to all the leftover auths we used to purchase.

A quick to Wisconsin DNR website and keyword search “turkey” provided the answer.

One fall turkey harvest authorization is included with each fall turkey or conservation patron license purchased. Customers will need to specify their zone of choice at the time of purchase. For select zones, bonus fall turkey harvest authorizations (formerly known as leftover tags) will be sold over the counter. Availability will be posted in the summer.

Whew, this means after the turkey committee meets we will be able to purchase more fall turkey harvest authorizations.  Got a little nervous there that turkey dog Vic’s turkey hunting opportunities were being curtailed.

This is good news, it has been a waste of time and money conducting the fall turkey drawing because there are so few fall turkey hunters in WI nearly every unit has leftover authorizations.  Now each hunter will receive an authorization with their fall turkey license.  Previously, they would not get this if they had not applied for the drawing.

 

Vic and I will relax now.

Best Coyote Call – – Turkey Yelps

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If you are hunting coyotes in an area with turkeys and the coyotes are not responding to the rabbit, mouse, or fawn in distress calls;  try talking turkey.  As a long time year-round turkey hunter it is most annoying at how often coyotes come in and come in close looking for a turkey dinner.   Coyotes have investigated turkey calling during all seasons, spring, summer, fall and winter.

On December 31st the last day of Wisconsin turkey fall season the sub-zero temperatures were too cold for Vic, the turkey dog to hunt.   Sadly, he had to stay home while I went hunting.  Setting up for cold calling takes on a whole new dimension.

After setting up, I started making lost turkey sounds; these are a series of loud yelps trailing off as if the voice was breaking at the end.  Picture yourself yelling until your vocal cords become strained causing the sound to fade and crackle.  That’s what a lonesome, lost turkey sounds like as it tries in vain to find a companion.  A young bird of the year will throw in some Kee-kees.

Within 20 minutes this coyote made the mistake of thinking I was going be the turkey dinner.  A Federal premium 3 inch, #5 Third Degree turkey shell dropped her in her tracks.

Coyote killed with a Federal third-degree turkey load. Coyote came in fast & close to my calls of the wild turkey.

Yes, coyotes prey on wild turkeys.  Why would they not?

Coyote wild turkey kill. Coyote scat in the top of the picture. The scat contained what appear to be turkey feathers.

This coyote responded to turkey calls in November and was shot a few yards away with a shotgun using a turkey shotshell.

If you are a coyote hunter take a turkey call out with you and see what happens, you may just be pleasantly surprised.   And we turkey hunters will be grateful one less coyote is looking for a turkey dinner. Good luck.

When Do the Eggs of Hen Wild Turkey Start Developing?

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On December 23, 2017, I shot a wild turkey hen.  While dressing out the carcass, I found these tiny egg clusters that were attached to the inside of her lower backbone.  Apparently, these are the beginning of egg formation.

Wild Turkey eggs recovered from a hen shot on December 23, 2017

Until I found these tiny egg packets the question of when eggs begin to develop in a wild turkey had never occurred to me. And since I usually try not to shoot adult hens during the fall hunt, this is the first December hen I have dressed out in preparation for the table.

Also, see When do Turkeys nest in Wisconsin?

It is legal to shoot any turkey during Wisconsin’s fall season so why do I  try not to take a hen?

An adult hen (brood hen) is a proven breeder, so I choose to focus on the jakes and jennies, thinking turkey biology, they are the most likely members of a turkey flock not survive the long cold winters. In other words, they are more likely to perish so why not put those excellent eating turkeys on the table?

In December most turkeys are approaching the same size, except for some late in the season hatched chicks.   Documented turkey nests with incubating eggs have been located as late as mid-August. Over the years, on three occasions, I have discovered broods of flightless poults at the end of August.

These eggs located in Wisconsin mid-March

Other interesting observations from the hen.

Pictured are the contents of a Dec 23rd hen’s crop. Temperatures were in the low teens and single digits.

 

This insect was found alive in the hen’s crop.

I do not know what kind of insect it is.  Even when temps are subzero, these bugs can be found moving around at the base of trees and in the bark when the sun warms the south side.

Oklahoma Fall Turkey Flock Finally Located

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Submitted and Written By First Bubba

With nearly a week of “Fall Turkey Gun” season over, a flock of toms is finally located and patterned.

Zeroing in on where they pause to gather before crossing a creek, it’s time to set up an ambush site.

It was awesome this morning! Hard frost, no wind!

It didn’t feel that cold until I jumped in the truck and turned the wipers on. They just bumped over the dew on the windshield! It was frozen solid!

Limping off down the road, I’m hunkered down in the seat to see the way through the one little clear spot.

A dense fog kept me from making much speed, and I wandered from ditch to ditch until the windshield thawed. That didn’t make a lot of difference because of the fog! LOL! Missed my turn in the gloom and had to back up about 30 yards!

I got in my “ambush, ” and set up well before daylight, and a deer began snorting and blowing behind me, guess it spotted me setting up. That’s okay; I’m after turkeys today.

Lying on the tripod with the stock on my lap is the Winchester Model 12 16ga I bought many moons back. I’ve wanted to turkey hunt with it for a LONG time.

I hear birds back to the east. One gobbled and 2 or 3 more yelps and cluck, and then they fall silent …and I wait!

It’s 7 am, and the fog-shrouded bottom is eerily quiet. Big, pecan fattened red squirrels rip from tree to tree, barking and quarreling. The whistle of duck wings overhead is a welcome sound from my past. Seven thirty! Where the heck are the turkeys? …and I wait!

Nothing moves.

Wrens flit in and out of the weeds and limbs I used for cover.

A sudden rushing sound like an approaching flight of ducks and about 15 turkeys sprint by me and stop at the creek crossing 20 yards away. I wait until the last bird passes. Selecting one of the larger birds, the Win M12 comes up out of its rest and mounts easily.

The selected bird sees the motion and takes a step, telescoping his neck in alarm–TOO LATE! The one-ounce charge of 7 1/2’s found their mark! The smooth oily action of the M12 quickly reloads, and the shotgun covers the flopping bird.

There is an explosion of wings at the shot as the remaining birds scatter, leaving one of their numbers behind!

Oklahoma Fall Gobbler by First Bubba

 

It’s 8 o’clock sharp.

18 pounds, 8-inch beard, 3/4 inch spurs

Not a “trophy” bird, but a really nice fall bird! …AND…with my 16ga M12 Win!! I love it!

Vic and Charlie Turkey Dogging Video

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Shane Simpson, Vic and I have been trying to get a turkey dogging episode completed for a few years.  Either the weather, the turkeys or life’s turns have not worked out until now.  Many times I’ve told Shane it is the jinx of the camera; seems like whenever a camera is on one of my hunts…Well, things don’t go as planned.

After several days of hunting, it finally came together.

Let us know what your thoughts are on this video.  Visit Shane’s website Calling All Turkeys.

Wisconsin 2017 Fall Turkey Drawing Complete; Estimate of leftover permits Updated with final stats

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Update: 5:00 PM 8/18/17 the official leftover fall turkey permit numbers are posted. Scroll down the page for table and link to WDNR page.

The 2017 fall turkey hunting drawing has been completed by the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.   Notification cards will be mailed very soon.  In the meantime, hunters can check their Go Wild account for their application status; look under “current licenses.”

Leftover fall turkey hunting tags will go on sale Saturday, August 26 at 10a.  Turkey hunters may purchase one permit per day until all permits are sold out.

Estimated Leftover Permits for Fall 2017 turkey hunt:

Zone 1 – 15,000+

Zone 2 – 5000+

Zone 3 – 18000+

Zone 4 – 8000-

Zone 5 –  150

No permits are leftover in zones 6 or 7.

When the leftover permit statistics are verified the exact number will be posted on the;

2017 Fall Turkey Hunting Leftover permit availability page. 

Update the final leftover turkey permit numbers are posted. Here is a copy of the WDNR table.  Click the link above to visit the WDNR page.

Zone Remaining Permits
Zone 1 15,486
Zone 2 5,073
Zone 3 18,531
Zone 4 7,936
Zone 5 180
Zone 6 0
Zone 7 0

Permits are $5.00 for 10 and 11-year-olds, $10.00 for residents, and $15.00 for nonresidents.

Please note that at the time you purchase your permit you will be required to purchase a fall turkey license. If you did not buy a spring turkey license, you would also need to buy a Wild Turkey Stamp.

2017 Wisconsin wild turkey fall season dates;

Zones 1-5  – Opens, September 16, 2017, Close December 31, 2017

Zone 6 and 7 – Opens, September 16, 2017, Close November 17, 2017

Grandkids and Puppies Go Together; especially if the puppies are Vizslas!

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Some questions don’t have to be asked twice-I’m going to visit Vic’s breeder and he has a litter

A basket of puppies. Life is good.

of Vizslas; “Would you like to come with?”  Heck, I don’t remember hearing an answer but the Jeep had both the grandkids sitting in it ready to go. Clearly, those kids had puppy fever which was betrayed by all their quivering as we drove the 200 some miles to Lone Oak Vizslas in Hutchinson Minnesota.

I have to admit this trip could have turn out to be “dangerous” for me, Vizsla puppies, particularly those from a strong hunting line are very, very tempting to a man with an empty

Please get off me!

place in his heart. However, I am not known as a fellow who would pass on an adventurous trip due to any type of challenge being involved.  Besides, the main reason for this trip was to talk to Marc about breeding Vic.  We had planned to do this a few years ago but Mrs. elk’s cancer put those plans on hold.

Vic will be seven years old in December 2017, it’s getting time for him to work with an apprentice. Turkey dogging requires a dog to learn a specialized skill set and to know the difference between turkey hunting versus other upland birds.  For example, Vic knows he must range out 200 to 400 yards to find a flock of turkeys then charge in to scatter those birds rather than point them.  If I have heard the turkeys scatter Vic finds me and leads me back for a setup.  While on setup during the call back he needs to be still and hold steady at the gun as the turkeys come into range.  On command, he goes out to hold the bird in place rather than retrieve as he does with the traditional upland game birds.  As regular readers of this blog know when Vic and I are hunting the upland birds like grouse, pheasant, and woodcock he works the traditional pointing style hunt.  That is he finds the bird, points holds steady to the gun and retrieves to hand.  Assuming I have done my part in that equation, if not, I become the recipient of “the look.”

Vic chatting it up with the ladies.

All that is easy to write and with the right bloodline in the dog, training in all those different skills is achievable.  With Vic, it was remarkably easier than I had anticipated.  Marc is a good breeder who loves his dogs who have good hunting pedigrees.

As of a couple of weeks ago, there were a few puppies not spoken for from this litter so if you have an interest you can contact Marc or Kerri at Lone Oak Vizslas.   Also, there was another litter born last week with some puppies not spoken for yet.

We plan to breed Vic late October – early November, so his puppies will be born in December and ready for pickup early February 2018. There is never a guarantee, hopefully, Vic’s offspring will continue his hunting pedigree. To say I am excited about training up another hunting companion is an understatement.

Enjoy all the pictures.

Papa to be Vic.

 

Am I cool or what?

 

What you want now?

 

Super heroes are boring.

Take me home with you?

I can point.

Seriously? I know I can hunt.

Wild Turkeys See In Color; But Will Pink Spook Them?

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New for the 2016 Wisconsin fall turkey season: A whole lot of gun deer hunting is going to be going on.  In my area, a month of the fall turkey season will feature a concurrent gun deer hunting season.   Wisconsin game regulations require all hunters and trappers to wear blaze orange or pink while afield during any open gun deer season.  Turkeys can easily see blaze orange and are spooked by this color, a serious problem for the state’s avid turkey hunters. But what about them seeing pink?

The eyesight of a turkey is nothing short of amazing.  Not only can turkeys see in detail that is equivalent to humans with eight-power binoculars their color vision is outstanding and includes the ability to see UVA light.

Turkey retinas have seven different types of photoreceptors.

Human retinas have only four different types of photoreceptors, 1 rod, and three single cones.

There is one well-known chink in the armor of a turkey’s eyesight, and that is it’s only two-dimensional sight, not the three-dimensional view humans have.  Turkeys compensate for this by consistently juking their heads to focus on objects at differing distances.  An example of a hunter exploiting this vulnerability, if you can call it that, occurs while setup calling from brushy fallen treetop.  The turkeys approach expecting to see movement, and a well-camouflaged human is only allowing a small portion of their figure to move tricking the turkeys into thinking there are more of them feeding in that hide away.

Back to; Can turkeys see fluorescent pink?  On the UVA spectrum, definitely.  Considering turkeys have six types of cones they can probably see pink.  However, pink is sort of present on their heads depending on a particular bird’s mood.  So if a turkey hunter is on a setup while wearing a pink camo vest only bits and pieces of pink are going to be seen by incoming turkeys who are expecting to see other turkeys.  Might just work out better to wear pink versus the orange.

I know, I know, we all laughed when Wisconsin became the first state to legalize the wearing of fluorescent pink.  As a matter of fact Wisconsin became and may still be the but of jokes in the national hunting community, and here I am thinking about this as a solution to replace wearing the ugly hunt messing up orange.  Is pink ugly?  Not on ladies but… Personally, I have lived with a pink allergy all my life mostly because I think of it as a girly color.   During the pink legalizing debate, the whole purpose was to make ladies more comfortable hunting by allowing them to wear pink; there was no talk of real men wearing these girly outfits.   Women felt this law was condescending, and men, for the most part, made jokes. Now in all seriousness, I am wondering if this is a viable solution for turkey hunting, where can a fluorescent pink camo vest be purchased and can I work past my pink phobia to become comfortable wearing one?

pink-hunting-vest

Wisconsin Hunting and Trapping Forecast

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Wisconsin DNR’s annual Wisconsin Hunting and Trapping Forecast is published and available.  

The downloadable PDF is here:

2016 Wisconsin Hunting and Trapping Forecast

Download Wisconsin 2016 Hunting & Trapping Forecast

Some of the highlights inside include

Find a place to hunt in Wisconsin

Pocket Ranger App has been downloaded 210,000 times for Apple and Android phones.

  • Places to hunt
  • Deer registration locations
  • Rules and regulations
  • License and permit information
  • Safety communication tool
  • Advanced GPS mapping features
  • Trophy Case, join a community of anglers and hunters
  • News and alert feature.

Public Access Lands (PAL) Atlas

Finding Open Lands – A mapping tool shows the approximate location of all MFL–Open and FCL lands in Wisconsin – here, you’ll find landowner info, acreage, and enrollment information.

Voluntary Public Access VPA and Habitat Incentive Programs HIP

Provides financial incentives to private landowners who open their property to public hunting, fishing, trapping and wildlife observation and improve wildlife habitat.

FFlight the Fields and Forest Lands Interactive Gamebird Hunting Tool

Features available within the program will help hunters locate DNR public parking areas, overlay township descriptions, and provide access to maps and aerial photos of prospective hunting areas.

Deer District Forecasts

  • West Central
  • Northern
  • Northeast
  • Southern

Migratory Game Birds

  • Ducks
  • 2016 Changes
  • Canada Geese
  • Mourning Doves
  • Woodcock

Upland Game

  • Wild Turkey
  • Pheasant
  • Ruffed Grouse
  • Sharp-tailed Grouse
  • Bobwhite Quail
  • Rabbits & Hares
  • Gray & Fox Squirrels

Furbearers

  • Raccoon
  • Coyotes
  • Gray and Red Fox
  • Beaver
  • River Otter, Muskrat, and Mink
  • Fisher
  • Bobcat

Black Bear Forecast

  • Northeast District
  • Northern District
  • West Central District

The folks at WDNR did an excellent job producing a thorough overview of the upcoming 2016 fall hunting and trapping seasons. I highly recommend you download this document; there is lots of useful information.  You will not be disappointed.  Good hunting.

Wisconsin 2016 Fall Turkey Permits are available

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As Monday, August 22, 2016, the Wisconsin fall wild turkey drawing is complete.  Turkey hunters must check their turkey permit status online; www.GoWild.wi.gov. At least that is the message on Go Wild, however, on the WDNR traditional website it still says-

 Successful applicants will be notified by mail the week of August 22, 2016

Last week, when I inquired about the fall turkey permits via phone, the DNR representative told me the usual postcard would be mailed to hunters the week of August 22.   Being a fellow who feels a sense of completeness when his license is in hand checked the new Go Wild site on Monday and found my turkey license waiting for me to print.

Come on fall! There has been enough video watching to this to last a lifetime.

Come on fall! There has been enough video watching to this to last a lifetime.

Where to find and buy a Wisconsin fall turkey license

  • After logging in at Go Wild and confirming your personal information, you will see your home page.
  • Select “Buy License.” Then the WDNR product catalog will appear.
  • Under the featured or Hunt/Trap tab “Awarded Fall Turkey Tag” line appears, select to bring up the Awarded Fall Turkey Tag screen.
  • The drawn tag is included with the purchase a fall turkey license at this time.
  • Conservation Patron license holders have the fall turkey license included.

Now don’t forget-

  • Remaining permits will go on sale beginning Saturday, August 27 at 10 a.m. Leftover permits will be issued on a one per-day basis.
  • Permits are $5.00 for 10 and 11 year olds, $10.00 for residents, and $15.00 for nonresidents.
  • One per day per customer, until they are sold out.

Please note that at the time you purchase your permit you will be required to purchase a fall turkey license. If you did not purchase a spring turkey license, you will also need to purchase a Wild Turkey Stamp.

Go here to review the leftover permits.

As usual, an internal review is being conducted to make sure the drawing was accurate.  The leftover turkey permits will be posted soon.

Update 9:20 pm August 23: The leftover permits are posted.  Here’s the chart of available over the counter turkey permits.

WDNR – Permit Availability

Zone Remaining Permits
FM 0
Zone 1 15,346
Zone 2 4,254
Zone 3 18,150
Zone 4 7,816
Zone 5 0
Zone 6 0
Zone 7 0

Best of luck turkey hunting and above all else have fun, enjoyable hunt.

Update August 24, 2016, WDNR mailed drawing notification postcards.  The cost of this mailing is about $17,789 including postage and the cost of printing the card and hunters still have to go online to buy their turkey license.  The game fund is operating in deficit; Why did they waste our money on this expense?

Velvet Trophy Shows His Stuff

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vic preparing for setup

Due to Vic’s training, he will not chase deer.

On Sunday, Vic and I were out for a woodland stroll during the lunch hour.  Of course, our ultimate goal is to locate turkeys and check on the local flock dynamics.  There are so many deer across the landscape these days that most of the time they just blend into the background, but then on occasion, a few standout.

You never know what you'll see on a summertime stroll in a Wisconsin Woodland

You never know what you’ll see on a summertime stroll in a Wisconsin Woodland.

This smallish velvet buck was eating small burning nettles, as Vic and I approached he lifted his head and walked over to get a better look at us.  Fortunately, I had my camera and was able to get out and turned on.

Deer, including trophy class bucks are not afraid of dogs.

Deer, including trophy class bucks, are not afraid of dogs.

As the deer approached, Vic sat near my left leg, so I was able to snap this picture of a beautiful public land buck.  After spending the better part of a half a century pursuing trophies like this, I marvel at how at home they are around dogs.  I wrote about deer and dogs here.   I know what some readers are thinking, “Oh, well, that’s just a summertime buck.”  Wrong, this happens in the fall while wild turkey hunting, pheasant, grouse, or woodcock hunting.  At that time of year, a shotgun is in my hands, and the camera is in a waterproof, cushioned pocket so getting a picture like this is more challenging.  Interestingly the deer will tolerate my dog even if he growls or barks at them, but they will not stand around when I start digging in my pockets.

My passion these days, fall turkey hunting, so now the question I ponder; Should I go out this season and take him or should I give the GPS coordinates to some other deserving hunter?

Deer can’t be reliably saved for future years because there are too many hazards in the wild that most likely will take their lives.  In Wisconsin, a buck deer like this has about a 50% CWD infection rate.  There is a 50/50 chance  that any buck you encounter will look like this next year.

Patrick Durkin wrote an excellent piece on CWD in WI.

Patrick Durkin wrote an excellent piece on CWD in WI.  His article should be mandatory reading for all hunters.

Somewhere along the line this fall I’ll meet a deerhunter who’d like a crack at a nice buck and I’ll give them the coordinates.  Perhaps, they’ll tip me off as to where all those turkeys I’ve been seeing went.

July Gobbling in Wisconsin; when and why wild turkeys gobble

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Turkeys gobble all year long.

 

July 21, 2016, the sunrise was greeted by profuse gobbling.  How cool is that on what is predicted to be the hottest day of the summer?

Why do gobblers gobble in July?

This morning is not the first time I have heard gobbling toms during the summer months.  There always has been a bit of mystery as to why there is any gobbling outside of the traditional spring mating season.  As a matter of fact, I’ve heard male turkeys sounding off during every month of the year, plus, many of my fellow hunters report the same type of off-season gobbling all year long.

Here is my reasoning as to the timing of gobbles

Late January – March:

  • Male turkeys are coming out of winter with different levels of physical strength along with differing levels of mating hormones.  The pecking order as established last fall is in the process of being reorganized while the bachelor flocks are beginning to separate.  All of this change is very exciting causing much gobbling.

April – May:

  • Of course, all hunters know this is mating time, the gobbling is an attempt to attract hens and scare off lower ranking toms and jakes. A mystery many hunters ponder is why on some of the spring days the sound of gobbling rings throughout woodlands and on other equally nice weather days mornings can be greeted by silence?  Personally, for the most part, I believe the amount of gobbling is directly related to the willingness of hens to mate and the number of gobblers competing for the hen’s attention.

June – August

  • During June gobbling for mating is winding down and the remaining male turkeys are becoming more interested in forming their
    Courtesy of D Gordon Robertson

    Courtesy of D Gordon Robertson

    summertime bachelor groups.  Some strutting and gobbling continue in an attempt to locate hens that did not breed or have lost their nest.  I’ve seen toms strutting in fields with attentive hens as late as the first week in August.

  • Male turkeys are less competitive and because they are seeking each other’s company rather than only focusing on hens.  Gobbling and coarse yelps are used to find each other.  A lot less fighting takes place at this time of year.

 

September

  • The jakes of the year are asserting themselves and anytime during the day short higher pitch gobbles will be heard.  They will be leaving
    Jakes milling around

    Jakes milling around

    their broods to form what I think of as gangs, much like teenagers who don’t want anything to do with the brood hen.  Many times these jakes seek out broods of hens with jennies to target for harassment.

  • September is an exciting time to hunt these jakes.  When you find them, they respond quickly and aggressively to calling.  Wisconsin fall turkey season opens mid-September.

October – November

  • Winter flock formation begins to take place in earnest.  As these weeks click by the flocks become larger as more birds join male flocks with separate flocks for the ladies.  Establishing pecking order in both flocks is contentious, so wild turkey calls abound at all times of the day.
  • Male turkeys, in particular, will fight, gobble and yell at each other.; This is the best time to get a fall gobbler, considered an extra special trophy by many hunters.

December – January

  • Winter has arrived, the turkeys settle in with the acquisition of food high on their daily agenda.  Occasional tiffs and arguments erupt beard swinging gobblerover the more desired food sources.  A few gobble will be heard from time to time, but mostly angry purrs or clucks warn off an encroaching turkey.
  • If a band of turkeys finds one particularly, abundant food source they will call to others and males may gobble.

All of the above is reason enough to get hooked on year-round turkey hunting.

 

What do Wild Turkeys Eat? Crops tell the story

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turkeybywater

Turkeys have sometimes been referred to as feathered goats when it comes to their eating habits.  The wild turkey’s diet is very diverse.  It might be easier to list what they don’t eat rather than trying to come up with a list of things they do eat.

When I kill a turkey, I always inspect its crop contents. Sometimes referred to as the craw by our southern friends.  The crop clearly shows what turkeys are feeding in a given area.   The crop is an enlarged muscle area of the esophagus near the gullet or throat.. See #4 on A.E. Shipley’s diagram.

PigeonAnatomy

OK you’re on the ball the diagram is a pigeon, that’s fine because almost all birds have crops.  One exception that may be of interest to hunters are geese; they do not have a crop.  I continue to be surprised by the number of bird hunters I meet who do not regularly open the crops of harvested birds to determine what they are eating.

Images of wild turkey crops and their contents.

From one of the gobblers who was feeding on watercress in a creek.

From one of the gobblers who was feeding on watercress in a creek. Story here.

Same turkey crop as above cut open. All those roots are watercress and some grasses apparently from feeding on the prairie.

Same turkey crop as above cut open. All those roots are watercress and some grasses apparently from feeding on the prairie.

 

Bird of year. Soybeans and some grass. Grass is one of the wild turkey's staples. Courtesy of www.turkeydog .org

Bird of year. Soybeans and some grass. Blades of grass is one of the wild turkey’s staples. Courtesy of Jon Freis www.turkeydog .org

 

Jake crop Oct. 15 Full of grasshoppers and crickets along with a few berries.

Jake crop Oct. 15 Full of grasshoppers and crickets along with a few berries, waste corn kernels.

 

Jake of the year Sept. 18 a summer bird. Stuffed with clover and grass seeds.

Jake of the year Sept. 18 a summer bird. Stuffed with clover and grass seeds.

A lot of hunters assume turkeys eat primarily agricultural crops and focus their hunting efforts on these fields; this is understandable since field turkeys are the easiest to see. Unfortunately, hunters who primarily focus on fields are missing out on a lot good turkey hunting in all the other out of sight areas.

Many assume wild turkeys primarily eat agriculture crops.  They do, but it’s the waste they go after not the standing crops. Think feathered goat.

  • How can you say turkeys eat the waste grain when I see them feeding in fields before harvest?
Even when turkeys are feeding in green agriculture fields, they are feeding on waste from the previous season, or they’re eating insects.  Proof of this is in the crops of dead turkeys.  A few years ago WDNR with volunteers from NWTF tracked a brood flock of turkeys on a southern Wisconsin farm that had requested a turkey shooting permit to stop the depredation.  In other words, this farm believed the turkeys were eating their growing crops.  The volunteer shooters monitored the brood flock all day as they fed.  As the flock begins moving to roost the shooters moved in and killed the entire flock; this was in the name of science.  The turkey’s crops were then dissected to see what they had consumed all day.  All the crops contained primarily insects and small amounts of waste grain, and this affirms what I see in the crops of turkeys.  I have never shot a turkey that had any recently planted grain; this includes the turkeys I’ve killed on farms with WDNR shooting permits for depredation.

Pheasants to a Last Minute Gobbler on New Year Eve

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December 31, 2015, found Vic and I coursing through a likely pheasant field. Wild pheasants in Wisconsin can be very hard to find especially on the last day of the season. Most pheasant hunting here is a put and take proposition. The DNR’s yearly stocking is usually done by the 2nd week of December. The last pheasants released are anemic and short lived due to predators getting easy meals before the onset of severe winter.

Vic learned to hold turkeys by the neck so figures all birds should be held by the neck.

Vic learned to hold turkeys by the neck so figures all birds should be held by the neck.

Turkey dog Vic has turned out to be an accomplished upland game dog. He can change tactics to match the requirements of hunting conditions. For a couple of afternoon hours, Vic coursed around me in his effort to force a pheasant or 2 to rise at my feet. One rooster nearly ran into my legs before flushing a few yards in front. Pheasant number 1 of the 2 daily limit.

Tired and wind burn we headed back to the truck. There was a brush line containing some bulldozed brush piles. Vic earnestly began working a scent trail that I thought was the most likely rabbit. He came to a rigid point at one of those piles. He had worked hard so I thought I’d humor him by kicking the pile to flush the bunny.
Well, these “bunnies” had multicolored iridescent feathers, long tails and all 6 of them cackled as they broke off heading to different points of the compass. So startled was I target panic set in as I fired three rapid shots to no effect. “I can’t miss all these pheasants of last season flush” raced to my mind. “dang it, pick a target you fool!” Luckily I did and the biggest and final rooster of the year crashed to the ground. With a limit of pheasants in the bag, single digit temperature, a brisk wind, and an hour & half of daylight left I pondered whether or not to try for a turkey at the buzzer, and this was the first year in decades it looked like we were not going to get a Wisconsin Slam.

Super secret Wisconsin wild pheasant location

Super secret Wisconsin wild pheasant location

The Wisconsin Slam sounds easy, just get a turkey each season of the year; spring, summer, fall and winter. Due to mrs. elk’s chronic health condition my time afield was more limited than normal. And mrs. elk prefers eating pheasants, so we spent more time out pheasant hunting than turkey hunting.

On the way to our super secret pheasant field, a small pod of gobblers had crossed the road onto private land just before the old creek bridge. First time I’d seen turkeys in that area so what the heck, time to investigate. It was only a 5-minute drive back there.
As I drove slowly across the bridge, I scanned the fields, no turkeys, when I looked into the creek valley black blobs were moving in the water. What the heck?  I cursed myself for not having the binoculars in the truck. Stopped to study those blobs with squinted eyes. The blobs materialized into a flock of turkeys wading in the water. Not exactly where they’re expected to be.

Turned around to park the truck about a half mile at the public parking area. Vic and I dumped the orange to change into snow camo jackets, slipped on the turkey pack and headed towards the creek keeping Vic on a heel. A glance at my watch revealed about 45 minutes of 2015 season time left.

The turkeys were there, in the creek heads submerged much like feeding ducks. They do this in the spring to eat invertebrates, first time I’ve seen this behavior in the winter.

The 2015 turkey season continues ticking down as we stalk in closer. As Vic catches their scent as he becomes more eager by the second to do his job. On release, he tears down the ravine in a blur snow powder and yipping. The turkeys take to winged frenzy cackling and clucking as they go water drops are clearly visible dripping off their beards while others have icicles hanging causing a mirage of diamond spears protruding from their breasts.

The beard is ice covered from feeding in the creek.

The beard is ice covered from feeding in the creek.

This late in the day I feared the gobblers might just go to roost. However, in late season turkeys prefer roosting together and with toms on opposite sides of the creek, one group would most likely want to rejoin the other before roosting.

Half of the turkeys flushed out the creek

Half of the turkeys that flushed out the creek, the other half went the opposite way.

Picking a setup was tough, the wind was icy especially for Vic; he has very little hair, so something sheltered was a must. That put us below the field sitting against a tree on the slope towards the creek below. Visibility to see any incoming turkeys was more limited than I like.

After 5 minutes, of course, aggressive calling Vic started trembling. At first, I thought he was cold but no, he was on point, head laying across my lap staring intently to my right. Then I heard it- prrt putt, prrrrrt putt, if I can hear that sound the turkeys are close. Slowly I turn my head and came eyeball to eyeball with a frozen bearded gobbler. He backed away putting; his head darted behind a tree, and my body twists to get the gun on him just when another gobbler sticks his head up to see what all the putting was about- Boom!

Vic smelling success

 

Vic charges to our prize and flushes more previously unseen gobblers. It always surprises me when the gunshot does not scare them. About 15 minutes left of season 2015 so we reset to end the season with a nice gobbler in the bag, a leftover tag for tag soup and best of all memories of gobbling, yelping and roosting turkeys against the red sky sunset.

The last gobbler of season 2015 on Dec 3, 15 minutes before the buzzer.

The last gobbler of season 2015 on Dec 3, 15 minutes before the buzzer.

Take The Wisconsin Slam Challenge

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There’s no better place to hunt turkeys

Vic, my turkey dog, a Vizsla (member of the pointer group), and I begin our fall hunting adventure together, typically setting up where Vic scattered a flock of turkeys. Vic lays next to my left leg with the look of happiness only a dog can express at a glance. As the scattered turkeys start their lost “kee kee” whistles looking to find each other in order to regroup, we know that’s my cue to start lost yelping and assembly calling.  In the case of scattered gobblers, coarse yelps, and aggressive purrs can bring them back into the gun. 

The woods is filled with turkey calls. Vic the turkey dog can't understand why we're waiting.

The woods are filled with turkey calls and Vic, the turkey dog, can’t understand why we’re waiting.

I love it when the woodlands are filled with the sounds of turkeys whistling and yelping at each other and back at us. Vic and I then become part of the flock, talking back and forth. As the conversation continues, Vic stiffens on a laying point towards the direction of the approaching turkeys. My gun will be up at the ready. There are two tags in my pocket and with a couple of gunshots, I’ll be hoping to validate those.

Turkeys are not just another upland bird to be flushed and shot. You can certainly do that; it’s legal. However, to a traditional turkey hunter like me, turkeys are special birds that require more finesse to tag. After all, what other upland game bird can be called in?

And there is no better place to hunt turkeys than in Wisconsin. The combination of seasons, habitat and the fact I can take my dog along in the fall make it turkey hunting heaven.

Summer gobbler Vic's first hunt. Beginner's luck?

Summer gobbler Vic’s first hunt. Beginner’s luck?

The Wisconsin Slam

Summer turkey? Wait you can’t shoot turkeys in the summer.  There is only a spring and fall season, right?

Most think of Wisconsin’s two turkey seasons; spring (April 15 to May 26) and Fall (Sept. 12 to Dec. 31 —  closes during nine-day gun deer season then reopens at the end of deer season).

But if you check the calendar, the fall turkey season dates overlap the official calendar dates of summer and winter. Summer officially runs June 21 to Sept. 22 allowing one to bag a summer turkey in the fall season, and winter officially starts on Dec. 22 giving Wisconsin fall turkey hunters a 10-day opportunity to shoot a “winter” turkey.

It was about eight years ago when it dawned on me that Wisconsin hunters can shoot a turkey during each of the four calendar-based seasons of the year: spring, summer, fall and winter.

Think of it as “The Wisconsin Slam” — taking a turkey in each of the seasons. Who do you know who has accomplished this? No trophies are awarded, and there is no official recognition. It’s all about the personal satisfaction a turkey hunter who understands turkeys and their year round behavior gets from this distinction.

Bar none; Wisconsin is a unique stand-alone wild turkey hunting state offering thousands of tags over the counter that in some units do not sell out by season’s end.

Why pursue a Wisconsin Slam?

The Wisconsin Slam is fun motivation to get out turkey hunting during a time when you might be distracted by something else to do or hunt. The “summer” and “winter” turkeys are harder to bag and offer a fun challenge. The vegetation is thick in the summer making the turkeys harder to find and see.  Winter season is the opposite — there is no vegetation, so the turkeys are easier to find, but that means it is also easier for the turkeys to see the hunter and his dog.

Being able to hunt in all seasons of the year is a uniquely Wisconsin hunting opportunity that so many hunters are overlooking. The spring season is the most popular but I’d like to see more hunters take advantage of hunting turkeys during the four seasons of the year. Need more incentive?  Summer, fall and winter turkeys are more tender and taste much better than the spring gobblers who are the survivors of winter starvation.

Extend the season winter turkey hunting with your dog

Extend the season winter turkey hunting with your dog

Not only can you complete a Wisconsin Slam but the state offers a variety hunting flavors.

Want to chase turkeys in miles of forests? Head to the northern big-woods. Want to try mountain turkey hunting? Wisconsin doesn’t have any “real” mountains but western Wisconsin does have some mighty steep bluffs. Marshland and river bottoms across the state can provide hunting with the feel of southern swamp turkeys, minus the large reptiles. Don’t forget to try southern Wisconsin for some prairie turkey hunting.

I’d argue that no other state offers such a myriad of turkey hunting opportunities.

Another important dimension to Wisconsin’s wild turkey hunting happened when turkey dogs were legalized for the fall turkey hunt season starting in 2011.  It is widely believed hunting turkeys with dogs is a new method; however, turkey dogs in North America are one of the original turkey hunting practices which date back to the founding of Jamestown in 1607. A small contingent of turkey hunters are now bringing the sport of turkey dogging back.

In spring, gobblers advertise their location by gobbling. In fall, this is not normally the case which makes finding the turkeys more challenging. Thus, a turkey dog comes in handy during the fall season. A turkey dog’s job is to find the turkey flocks then flush them in different directions while barking or yipping to let his master know where the action is. When turkeys scatter in different directions, it is easier for the hunter to call the turkeys back together while setup with their dog at the point of the break.

Hunting with a dog in the fall brings the excitement that makes spring hunting seem tame by comparison. When turkeys respond for gathering they do so with gusto, gobbling, purring, kee kees, yelps — you name the call, and they do it. Many times a group of gobblers will not only gobble and purr they’ll fight with each other as they come back.

Turkey dogging also extends the time of contact and interaction with wild turkeys. The first contact is when the dog is flushing or breaking up the turkey flock this is particularly rewarding for the hunter who enjoys the flush of wild birds. The second contact occurs when the turkey answers your call. Yes, turkeys talk to you. Then of course, hopefully, the interaction brings the turkeys in close to you and your dog. A trembling dog close by your side adds to the excitement of the incoming birds as you know you have trained this dog with the skills required. It’s fun to share the excitement, and there’s no better place to do it than in Wisconsin.

 

After breaking up a flock Vic sets up with anticipation of the turkeys reappearing.

After breaking up a flock, Vic sets up with anticipation of the turkeys reappearing.

Wisconsin’s turkey management plan

Wisconsin Turkey Management Plan

Wisconsin Turkey Management Plan

The Wisconsin Wild Turkey Management Plan, a product of coordination between the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, key stakeholder groups, and the public, is available on the department’s website.

People can view an electronic copy of the plan by searching the DNR website, dnr.wi.gov, for keywords “turkey management.”

The Wild Turkey Management Plan will guide decisions regarding the allocation of turkey permits, the structure of our spring and fall hunting seasons, the use of Wild Turkey Stamp funds, and many other aspects of turkey management in the state through 2025. The current plan reflects recent scientific research and changes in turkey distribution and hunting tradition. The management plan was guided in part by input received at 12 meetings held statewide in April and May 2012, as well as an online survey available during the same time period.

Article appeared in the Wisconsin Resource Magazine in August 2015.  Written by charlie elk.

Wisconsin Wild Turkey Slam

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What is a Wisconsin Wild Turkey Slam?

During the fall 2007 wild turkey season it occurred to me Wisconsin has a turkey season during all seasons; spring, summer, fall

Spring gobbler

Spring gobbler

and winter, there is no end to the turkey hunting opportunities in Wisconsin.   I’m sure some enterprising employee in the state’s tourism department will declare Wisconsin the “Wild Turkey Capital of the Nation” or maybe even the World!   Hmm, perhaps that would not be good and I should post about the lack of turkeys on a opening weekend 2014?  But I digress.

Summer turkey

Summer turkey

Back to the Wisconsin Wild Turkey Slam.

In an effort to get away from the pressure of shooting the biggest, longest bearded and spurred turkey in the woods.  Instead attempt to kill a turkey in every season of the year.  The concept begin to glow and the more I thought about it the more I liked it.  Nothing wrong with bagging the oldest, biggest and most dominate bird in the woods it’s just that “trophy hunting” sometimes does things to hunters and not all good.  Above all hunting should be fun and if you are not having fun go do something else.

  • Here’s how the Wisconsin Slam Works:
  • Tag a turkey in each season- spring, summer, fall and winter in the same year, any wild turkey counts.
  •  When the spring season is open it is spring, no question there.
  • Summer lasts until September 22 in 2014 so the window to get a summer turkey is opening day Sept. 13 to Sept. 21.
  • Fall starts Sept. 22 and continues to December 31.  Lots of time to get the fall bird except there are many other distractions as in other things to hunt.
  • Winter starts December 21 and goes to the December 31 when the Wisconsin turkey season closes.  Vic and I go a New Year’s Eve turkey every year.

You can double check my dates here.

Fall turkeys . Most turkey hunters do not realize toms gobble and respond to calls in the fall too.

Fall turkeys . Most turkey hunters do not realize toms gobble and respond to calls in the fall too.

Winter turkey

Winter turkey

Why even do this slam?

In my case I became immersed in trophy deer hunting for a couple of decades and yep quite successful at it.  Walls are full and there are boxes of big antlers in the shed.  Same thing with spring bearded turkey hunting.  Yes, I had lots of fun and I’m not about to discourage anyone from pursuing trophies.  It is more of a personal thing for me as it slowly dawned on me that focusing like that was changing me and I did not like what that was doing to me, as in what I was becoming.  Now a days I don’t compete in any hunting related contest.  Rather I create my own goals.  Humans need some goals for motivation and I’m no exception in that department.

Please remember while hunting – have fun however that is defined by you and only you.

Charlie Answered Turkey Dog Questions on Outdoor Life

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New Year turkey 2011 (640x513)

 I’ve enjoyed participating in Outdoor Life’s forum over the last 5 years. Because  I get a lot of  questions about turkey dogging like Turkey Hunter 39 asked on one of the OL Answers Thread. So I thought I would publish it here for other would be turkey doggers to enjoy.

Turkey hunter39 started by asking-

Q: Anyone planning to use a dog for fall turkey hunting this year? If so, what breed?

Charlie elk could not resist helping out a turkey dogger to be. The thread contains a lot of good information so I decided to reprint it here.

I love turkey dogging it only took one season that would be last year to get me hooked. My dog is a Vizsla there are some of his puppy pics in my profile. There would be more of him and his turkeys but OL will not let me load them up without a Facebook page which I don’t have.

If you Google “turkey dog hunting with charlie elk” a wide variety of my posts and pictures on this subject will come up.

Turkey39–

Charlie, thanks for the reply. I am a member of the American Wild Turkey Hunting Dog Association, new member, and have talked to Jon several times. Jon was very helpful in helping me choose a dog. I will be picking up Steve Hickoff ‘s book, it is on my literature list. You are absolutely correct that fall hunting makes you a better spring hunter. In the fall, you get to hear the turkey’s full vocabulary. The fall is a great time to practice your calling, and more importantly, how to match the call to the situation at hand. Turkey dogging is a small world, but almost everyone that I encounter is interested in it. The common response is….”I have never heard of that.” I don’t know that I want it to go mainstream, but it would be nice to have additional resources available for the new guys. Keep posting the material and I will keep reading, maybe even contribute some of my own. If my pup isn’t ready this year due to age, he definitely will be next year. If anyone else is interested, don’t sit on the fence, just ask. Turkey meat is even sweeter in the fall!

Sometimes we get a little off subject, that’s OK too as JM chimes in-

A few years ago I drove 16 hours out of state to bring a friend of mine who was in college archery hunting for the first time (first time hunting at all for anything besides rabbits). Since we were too far away from my farm and he did not know anyone with private land, we decided to go to public land. It was a 2500 acre property (all woods) and for three days straight the same three people had 6 dogs running around barking throughout the entire property looking for a turkey. On the second day we caught up with them at the parking lot when we went in to eat lunch and asked them if they could leave an area alone for me and my friend to hunt. They seemed nice, and showed us an area on the map that they would leave for us (was a nice big area, so we just agreed and headed straight out without even going into town to buy lunch). About 45 minutes later all three of them walked right past us (in the area they said they would leave alone), and when we walked up to them all they would say was “public land.” On the third day we thought we caught a break because they were not in the parking lot that morning…but nope. 30 minutes after it got light they drove down a trail in 4 wheelers (It was illegal to ride them on this section of public land). We just gave up and called the police and they contacted a game warden who came out. Turns out all three of them weren’t even supposed to be hunting (warden wouldn’t tell us why they lost licenses). Needless to say we did not see a single deer (or turkey) and I have been unable to get him to try it again since….hopefully there are some respectful turkey hunters that use dogs (I know Charlie is one), but sadly this was the only encounter I have ever had with one.

charlie elk-

JM those you describe were obviously lawbreakers and or poachers. We should take great care and never refer to them as hunters.

Turkey doggers do not use packs of hounds. The vast majority use one dog maybe 2 (an older trained dog and a younger being trained) that work closely together to find a flock. Then they charge for the break, hopefully they bark to let the hunter know the exact location so they can all setup and call the birds back in.

Welcome to the American Wild Turkey Hunting Dog Association! Glad to have you as a member. I am sure Jon has given you a lot of very sound advice. When I was debating whether or not to get a turkey dog and what kind he was most kind, open and helpful. As a member you have access to a lot of very good information in the member section of the website. Make good use of it.

What state will you be hunting in?

 

Turkeyhunter39-

I have been all through that website and it is great. Read the pamphlet that Jon sends out as well. Most of my fall turkey hunting will be in KY and TN. Jon has extended an offer to come up to Wisconsin and I plan to take him up on it. I was very interested to read how versatile Vic is as far as hunting turkeys and upland game. That is what I am hoping to accomplish as well. Kentucky has two very short fall turkey seasons, 6-7 days in both October and December. Tennessee also has a short fall shotgun season, but a more liberal bag limit. My ace in the hole is a public hunting area that has a really long fall season and an amazingly liberal bag limit. All combined, I could run my Brittany for about 4 months…which is fantastic. I have access to some wild quail as well, so we are going to go the double duty route. It is funny to me how welcoming the turkey dogging community is, and how passionate the hunters are about their sport. Everyone has been unbelievably helpful. I feel like I have stumbled onto the best kept non-secret ever.

JM, I hate that you had a bad experience with some questionable hunters. I would say that conflict would most likely occur during archery season as the seasons will undoubtedly overlap. I will be hunting both public and private ground. The private ground is a non-issue, but I don’t believe I would turn my dog loose on just any Wildlife Management Area (WMA). The public area that I will hunt is more regulated and it is not very likely that I would run into anyone else, if I do, they will be turkey hunting also. I also lease ground from time to time, and didn’t renew a lease this year because of their dog policy. No harm, no foul. There is enough space for all of us. I wanted to do something different than the crowd, and so it wasn’t a good match anymore. All forms of hunting has its time and place, and I have no desire to ruin someone else’s hard earned hunting time. Hopefully your next encounter will be more positive. Happy Hunting.

JM-

As Charlie stated, I shouldn’t have even called them hunters. Just 3 selfish poachers who thought they were more important than anything around them.

-I wish you and your dog luck in the upcoming hunting seasons. I hope someday I will the time to train a dog to hunt with me. I just do not think I could give a dog enough attention right now (I Work 60hrs/week over the summer and still working on my degree).

 

charlie elk-

Turkey hunters are arguably the most considerate sharing easy to get along with hunters of them all. That goes double for turkey doggers.

TH39, WI has no limit on fall turkey hunting you get as many as you have permits for and the season is 3 1/2 months long. Should you find your way to WI drop me a line and perhaps our paths will cross. To contact me just make a comment on my website or PM me on the other sites you see my posts on.

Check out the January turkey hunt at Fort Campbell, they allow dogs. Also some states allow dogs for spring hunting too. Jon has those posted on the turkey dog site.

You are right on about fall turkey tasting so much better.

How old is your pup?

At 4 months old I started getting Vic accustom to gunfire. A turkey dog must endure very close gunfire more so than any other hunting dog. 

Turkey doggers don’t usually interfere with bowhunters. Turkey dogging is a mid-day activity and the vast majority of bowhunters have already left the field by the time we start. Although they should stay on their stands because I see more trophy bucks within easy bow range when Vic is with me than I do sitting on my butt during “prime time”.

But some bowhunters are upset about anyone else doing anything else in the woods because–

The scent control salesmen and inexperienced outdoor writers have too many deer hunters so freaked out about leaving scent in the woods that they think if anyone walks around without a has-mat suit on; the area is contaminated making it impossible for them to kill a deer let alone a trophy.

Oh well what I can say about these guys. Except you need to get out more. 😉

 

JM–

What do you expect Charlie? Have you seen hunting shows lately? I saw one where the “hunter” said that the hunt was the hardest of his life. He spent three hours in a stand and passed on more than 20 bucks (all within easy bow range) that 90% of hunters would have called the biggest deer of their life. Yeah, real tough hunt.

Turkey39–

I do hunt Campbell and it is loaded with turkeys. The fall season has two segments, so you can run ’em early and late season. The funny thing about Campbell is access, you have to call in and get a unit. I tried all spring to get a unit and couldn’t, it was full every day. They allow you to take 4 bearded turkeys in the spring, so I ate 4 tags. I haven’t had any problems, knock on wood, getting in units during the fall season, very few people fall turkey hunt…it is tough hunting. Campbell is one of the reasons I started investigating alternatives for fall turkey hunting, as it is so vast. I hunted multiple days without seeing or hearing a turkey, and I know they are there. So it got me thinking that there had to be a better way, and that is when I came across Jon’s website. I started doing research, decided it was something I wanted to do, verified I could use a dog on Campbell and the rest is history. My pup is four months old now and he is definitely interested in birds, he just seems to not be quite ready yet for any real training. I am reading a lot about Brittany’s and they don’t seem to mature very early. He has taken to yard work very well and has no problem plowing through the brush, but he still seems too hyper to really focus on the task at hand. Could be my training as well. He has the pedigree and seems to have a good nose, he is just very puppyish. I don’t want to rush him and we are keeping it fun. The weather hasn’t really cooperated with me either. It is either 100+ or thunderstorms. My tentative plan is to continue the yard work for another month or so, mix in as much live bird work as I can, introduce the e-collar around 6 months of age, and take him with me in October for the early KY season. It is private ground and we can just go out and hunt. No pressure and lots of birds. I am very familiar with their fall habitat on that piece of land, so I can help focus his efforts. I am working on getting him to settle down next to me and I will introduce him to the bag in the next two weeks. I am definitely seeing progress, I just don’t want to push him too hard. Let me know what you think. Did Vic mature early?

charlie elk-

Come August the turkeys of the year will be old enough to take some chasing. Turkey hunter 39, you should get your pup out in some turkey areas so he can get a nose full of the good stuff. If you have some wings, tails or feathers introduce them into his play routine. Pups have short attention spans but when they like the smell of something coupled with your strong approval; well that is the start of something good.

Vic was about 3 1/2 months when I was leading him in charging across March’s frozen fields yelling turkey, turkey; those flocks broke with cackling, wing flapping pandemonium and the strong scent left behind for him to inhale. Soon he was spotting and beating me to the turkeys though I’m not too tough to beat. Then we did practice setups, I’d call for bit and maybe spend 5-10 minutes kind of still. A couple of times the turkeys came back that quick and he learned to point at them as they came in. He is rigid while pointing.

We did these exercises until my spring season opened 3rd week of April. Vic was allowed to nose the dead gobblers over good and I would direct him to grab their heads and drag them to me. He really like that game. Then we went for a hike to the kill spot where I had left some feathers lying about. Vic would go crazy sorting out the trail the gobbler approached on. All great fun and I let him be like a kid on his first hunt, but Vic did seem to realize there was something very serious going on.

 In August we pursued turkey flocks, scattered them and practice setups. During all this training I should mention I used a blank starter pistol to shoot around Vic including on our practice setups. From there we graduated to 22, a 410 and then 20 gauge. The first time he heard a 12 was on opening day when a nice gobbler rolled over dead in front of him.

Some trainers tried to discourage me from taking him hunting until the next year. Said I was rushing him too much. But like you I did not put the screws to him very hard rather just let him develop at his own pace while giving him plenty of exposure to what counts. All the while letting him know what I liked and disliked.

BTW, Vic does not know what an e-collar is, my training methods are very old school.

You are in for more fun than you can imagine.

 Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I laughed when I read your last post, as I too have been waiting for the poults to get big enough to handle some pressure. I want to train my dog, but not at the expense of the animal I love to hunt. I am conflicted about the e collar and if I was just hunting private ground, I might not go that route. I am looking at the e collar to keep him honest and out of harm’s way. Also, the fallout of not bringing the family pet home from a hunt would be unbearable. He follows me everywhere I go, but there is always that chance that temptation could end up in a lost dog, especially with a young dog like him. So I plan to use an e collar and a gps collar. I do some traveling to hunt, so those items give me some piece of mind. I have some wings that I am cleaning up…they were treated with Borax as I make wing bone yelpers. I want to make sure I have the Borax off them before he plays with them. I think the time of year they were born in makes a difference. I got him at 10 weeks old in the dead heat, with poults everywhere. Oh well, I am a patient man…lol. Have you had any issues with Vic getting on a scent and heading to parts unknown? I have read about the old timers leaving their jacket on the ground so the dog could find it and they would pick them up the next day…which isn’t a situation I want to find myself in.

 charlie elk-

I have never lost a dog in afield. Good basic obedience is critical. Does Vic cross property lines while in hot pursuit? Yes. Do I wish I could really teach him a lesson then? Yes. Like with an e collar? Yes, let his hair smoke.

Fortunately it now seems we are past this due to whistle training. We use a very shrill whistle that seems to cut through his excitement of the moment. Once I have his attention he has a strong desire to please so he comes back.

I have never used any training collar so I have no way to give a meaningful opinion. Guys who use them swear by em. Except one friend of Jon’s who thought his dog was chasing a deer so he zapped his dog. Oops, it turned out to be a turkey. The dog never pursued a turkey again for him, he used it to hunt other birds but remained confused as to why this dog refused to chase turkeys. Until he loaned his dog to friend who reported back the dog was the best turkey dog he had ever hunted with. Hmm… Guess you have to be careful with those collars. You might have read about this one I think it is in Jon’s booklet.

A turkey dog must be able to operate independently out to 200-300 yards, this is one of the tough parts of the hunt. Where we hunt there are bears, coyotes, wolves and rattlesnakes; I worry about Vic when he is a little overdue for check in. A GPS locator might be in his future.

 Turkeyhunter39-

“Have you had any issues with Vic getting on a scent and heading to parts unknown?”

charlie elk-

Not so far. Should he, I am prepared to stay afield overnight in the last place we parted company.

To prevent this I used Jon’s technique of showing great displeasure and dislike of things like deer. The idea is to get the dog to think you hate deer or whatever he should not chase.

In my area the deer are more numerous than rabbits. Of course as Vic and I hiked around preseason they would run, what great fun for a pup. My reaction was oh an awful smelly deer, no like deer. Vic would then bark at the deer and bluff charge them a few yards to chase them away and come back for his reward. Now he does not care about deer at all, they are just something on his way to the target birds.

I will never forget the look of betrayal on his face when I came home with the first dead deer he ever saw. He sniffed it over real good and looked at me as if to say you LIAR! But he still does not have any interest in deer while we are hunting.

This is good, in addition to turkeys I arrow a lot of deer each year too. But sitting on deer stand is getting really boring compared to all the excitement and action of turkey dogging.

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, The e collar is definitely something you have to be careful with. I haven’t even bought one yet, as I am still reading over the various training techniques and how to introduce and use one properly. I am with you on the overnight vigil if the dog would run off. Private ground, no problem. Fort Campbell, they are going to start looking for you if you don’t sign out. Sign out and stay in the unit to find your dog……? Guess it depends on who finds you, and what kind of day he/she is having. I need to go back and read about the avoidance training…my shoes could definitely use a break. LOL. He likes to carry them around. We still have some basic obedience training to work on as well. He responds well to basic commands, but we seem to have a little bit of a focus problem. Any tips on helping to deal with distractions and increase focus would be much appreciated.

charlie elk-

In a Fort Campbell situation it might be prudent to leave the field early with your dog in order to avoid that lost dog scenario. An old fashion leash would be a good idea, allowing the dog off leash only when turkeys are encountered.

When Vic gets overly spun up I leash him to keep him close until he settles back down. An inexperienced pup encountering all the rich turkey scent…well who can really blame him for getting all excited?

The leashing helps focus attention and keeps the master in command. I keep telling Vic there is a reason I wear the whistle and he wears the collar. 😉

A pup’s attention span is that of a gnat so look for the moments of focus and capitalize training on them at that moment. I believe a trainer of a young dog must be very careful to not crush the spirit of the dog. For example Vic still points and dashes after butterflies, perhaps embarrassing if anyone else sees, but an important part of the desire and drive. As Steve Hickoff reminds desire must be there it is the one thing you cannot train into a dog. So if you stop the dog constantly from chasing he might lose interest.

 Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, Good tips. Do you have a suggestion on leash length? I have a 20 foot check cord that I let him explore with, especially when we’re someplace new. That really isn’t conducive for a hunting situation though. Of course, I have a 6 foot leash as well. I have found that he does calm down when I leash him, so that might very well work. I guess in my mind, I am having trouble imagining the scenario. I still don’t know if he will point, then flush; point only; flush only. In the leash scenario, are you putting the dog on the leash after the flush, so he calms down for the calling? I know Jon will leash his dogs until he gets to a promising area, and I can see leashing the dog for the walk out when the hunt is over. Can you give me a scenario when you would put Vic on a leash during the hunt?

charlie elk-

I have never used a check cord, too long in woods and as a turkey dog first, Vic needs to range wide. We just use a 4′ leash. My favorite for turkey hunting is the Mendota British-Style Slip Lead in 4 foot length, do a search on Cabela’s to see it. For Vic and I this is just the right size on turkey setup and when necessary for spin down time. It is fast to put on as it slips over his head so you don’t have to find the clip and loop on his collar.

During Vic’s first season, hopefully only because of his youth, he would get over stimulated (spun up) and start dashing about, obviously not hunting just going through the motions at a high rate of speed; this is an example of leash time for spin down. I don’t treat this as punishment, I talk to him a sympathetic soothing tone telling him what and how we need to hunt. When he sees this lead in my hand he now comes over and sticks his head through the loop as it signifies something really good might be getting ready to happen like a turkey becoming dead or I’m taking him to a more game rich area.

The lead was used to teach Vic to “sneak”. Sometimes turkeys are feeding on the other side of a field; if the dog just charges across at the turkeys they flush as a group. The better strategy is heel the dog and sneak in as close as possible ideally so Vic can run into the center of the birds to scatter them all directions. My command to Vic for this is “sneak”, he knows the difference between heel and sneak. It is cute when he sneaks, he crouches down with me and pads lightly.

Another leash scenario is when hunting private land you must be careful of the property lines in order to maintain good neighborly relations. So Vic gets leashed when we are getting close to the lines. I preferred hunting large tracts of public land during Vic’s rookie year in order to avoid these.

Trust me, when you need to leash your pup, you’ll know it.

Yesterday, Vic and I went out scouting we encountered a flock of about 20 feeding in hayed barley field. Told Vic to sneak, we did the crouch to the end of an adjoining cornfield. On command “Turkeys Get Em” – Vic slipped 2 rows into the corn and charged down the row until he was opposite the turkeys, turned into them…

It was a beautiful heartwarming sight all those turkeys, surprise putting & cackling, flying to different areas.

The kee-kees and assembly yelps started before we left the area, clearly those turkeys would have been callable to the gun.

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I will check into that leash. Thanks for the nuts and bolts. I like the idea of “sneak” and will see if Max will take to that. I have been contemplating the command for charging the flock and will probably try “bust ’em.” Any thoughts on what you wish you had done for your first “dry run” or what you did do that worked very well?

charlie elk–

Each dog has a different personality and they each seem to understand our language and inflections with differing levels of comprehension & excitement. So as long as the dog comprehends what is necessary the chosen command does not matter. As long as the master is consistent in its use.

Usually Vic busts the flock on his own. Only when I spot the field flocks do I take control. Otherwise I trust Vic will sniff em out and charge on his own, just wish I could figure out how to get him to bark and let me know about it.

I do like to use different commands than those in the “book” for safety reasons. Like “kennel” I use a different word when its time to get in the truck. Around here there is an unusually high incidence of hunting dog theft. Also, I allow Vic to be a little aggressive toward strangers, I ask companions to not give him any commands.

That way, hopefully if someone stops and orders Vic to Kennel he’ll bark and find me or bite them if they try to grab him.

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, Do you use a bag for Vic? Max is white, so we have to use the bag. Any suggestions for getting him to like the bag?

 charlie elk–

Vic is deer colored, he blends in really well so he usually wears a wide reflective orange collar or orange vest which easily slips off for setup. During cold weather, because of his short hair mrs elk made some camo vests to keep him warm. Vic has quite the wardrobe, snow, brown, gray, green camo and orange vests both nylon and fleece. Depends on the weather and where we are going to hunt.

Glad you asked, I have been meaning to post some pics of him in his camo on my website. I’ll try to get that done this weekend.

In Steve Hickoff’s book he describes how to get a dog blind/bag tolerant.

 Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I really need to order that book. Thumbs up to Mrs. Elk for making the vests. My wife also sews and is making some custom bags for me. I need something really lightweight for early season and a fleece one for late season. I checked out that leash you recommended online and I think it is available at my local Bass Pro Shop so I will check it out in person. There is one thing in particular that I haven’t decided on and that is water transport in the field. Max drinks a ton and I am not sure a couple of bottles of water in my vest is going to be enough. I will be dealing with warm weather for a lot of my fall turkey season, and a good water source isn’t always readily available in some of the areas. How much water do you carry and how do you do it? At this point, as I go through the mental checklist, I feel like I need to take a mule with us. LOL. Water, blind bag, leashes, calls. Have you encountered the same problem or do you have a minimalist approach you would like to share?

 

charlie elk–

Minimalist while turkey dogging? Let me know when you figure that out. 😉 My vest gained at least 30 pounds and doubled in bulk when Vic joined me.

I have my calls down to 2 wing bones and a slate.

Water is heavy and necessary for an extended warm weather hunt. I carry 2 one quart water bottles, mostly for Vic I don’t drink much.

Tried one of those bladder type re hydration things too cumbersome to operate.

On really hot days we woodlot hop with a couple gallons of water in the truck or boat.

As far as container I just lug the proper size plastic juice bottles and when they get icky throw em away.

 

Turkeyhunter39-

Charlie Elk, I am laughing because I keep looking at the gear and I am wondering just how I am going to haul it all. Glad to see that I am not alone. I have actually been thinking about how I can divide up some of my hunting so that we circle back to the truck. I am also considering carry a tub with water in it as a dunk tank for Max on really warm days…I might see 90 plus degree days. Circle back to the truck, hydrate, and dunk him to cool him off. For the fall, I use wing bone calls, mouth calls, and a tube call, so they are not that bulky. I basically need shells, calls and a therma cell. No blind, no decoys. Realistically, how long do your hunts average? Some of my places we could cover in an hour or two, some we couldn’t cover in a full day. Do you feed Vic between wood lots when you are putting in a long day? Have you ever tried to run Vic and harvest a turkey with a bow?

 charlie elk–

Well TH39, Jon uses a backpack, he carries all the stuff we do plus a pop up blind and chair.

On really hot days I plan a series of shorter hunts and return to the truck or boat. Many hot day hunts take place in river valleys. Not only does Vic need resting, I need resting more than he. 😉

If I need food on a hunt then I offer Vic food too.

No on the bow; I have killed numerous turkeys with arrows and have found I just don’t care for it. This may sound strange but I do not find any extra challenge in taking a turkey with a bow. For it is about the same as shotgun, so I just use the shotgun. Plus with a shotgun the turkeys do not flop away requiring tracking. Although, with a turkey dog tracking is no big deal.

Last spring a neighboring hunter arrowed a gobbler but it got back up and ran away. He mentioned this to me, I told him about my turkey dog. In about 10 minutes Vic found the turkey dead 250 yards away from point of shot. The hunter had thought the turkey survived.

Forgot to answer your question about how long does hunt last.

Vic was a pup last season, his attention span was short so at first a couple of hours at a time or less depending on his attention. Sometimes we just leash timed out, spun down, while we practiced being setup with some cold calling. Other times Vic would start hunting for himself rather than with me.(very bad habit for a hunting) Then it was back to the truck, until he recovered and settled down.

Typical day last season; I would go out bow hunt deer early morning until 10. Come back get Vic and hunt until 3-4 in the afternoon. Then Vic spent resting time with mrs elk while I went back out deer hunting

Turkeyhunter39–

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I have noticed a change in Max over the last week or so, it seems he is starting to understand what I want him to do. Not perfect mind you, but he seems much more focused when we are going through exercises. I have noticed from your comments that you really focus on Vic having fun along with getting down to business. I decided I would relax some and Max has responded well. I mentioned bow hunting for turkeys due to season length. With the exception of Campbell, both of my typical states have really short shotgun seasons. With a bow, I have months. I have considered just taking Max and putting him in a blind with me, a little bonding, and let him get good and excited over a fresh kill. I plan to take him out in a week or so and see if we can’t get on a flock…see what he does with it. I have roughly 6 weeks until we could potentially start chasing birds on Campbell. I am planning to run him, carry a gun, keep expectations low and see how he does. A lot of trial and error headed my way. I guess I am a little unsure and don’t want to mess him up, as he is a good dog.

charlie elk–

TH39, this has been an enjoyable exchange, thank you.

If a bow was the only way I could turkey hunt, well then bow hunt it is. Please do not let my comments about that discourage you and anyone else who is reading. I am not against bow hunting turkey. In WI we are blessed with a 3 1/2 month fall season, bow or gun, I just choose gun.

If you would like to write about Max and your experiences, Jon would love to post them on www.turkeydog.org and of course www.charlieelk.com complete with any pictures you would like to share. The more turkey doggers the merrier.

Turkeyhunter39–

Charlie Elk, I too have enjoyed the exchange. I have learned a lot. It has been nice to get practical advice. I plan to post our adventures as the season progresses. I will keep you posted on the training and Max’s antics. I hope others who are interested will come across these posts and join in on the fun of turkey dogging. Good luck this fall. Check back periodically, as I am sure I will need additional advice. LOL.

charlie elk–

Oh yes Th39 there will some Max antics and I will love to hear about them.During hunting season I become what the OL editors lovingly refer to as a ghost. So if you have a story or two you could also email me at elk@charlieelk.com Good hunting and have a grand time building a relationship with Max.

Full Outdoor Life thread can be viewed here –

 

 

 

 

2014 Wisconsin Fall Wild Turkey Permits Stable

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Wisconsin 2014 wild turkey permit status:

After the last minute spring turkey permit reduction fiasco that very few knowledgeable hunters thought was a good idea.  Fall turkey hunters were concerned those same few complainers would manage to convince the WDNR to reduce fall turkey permit availability in 2014.  Thankfully, wildlife management based on science prevailed and the fall turkey permit numbers will be  equal to the number offered during the 2013 fall season.  Statewide 96,700 permits will be available with permits allocated to specific turkey management zones based on the amount of habitat available.

Fall permit levels are set by the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources after review by the Turkey Advisory Committee, a group that includes representatives from the department and numerous partner organizations with an interest in Wisconsin’s wild turkey resource.

Zone-specific fall 2014 permit levels are as follows:

  •  Zone 1: 27,500
  •  Zone 2: 18,000
  •  Zone 3: 30,000
  •  Zone 4: 15,000
  •  Zone 5: 3,800
  •  Zone 6: 1,400
  •  Zone 7: 1,000

Scott Walter reports:

“We certainly heard from hunters who were concerned that this past winter might significantly impact our northern turkey flock,” said DNR upland wildlife ecologist Scott Walter. “We do know from research in the Midwest that prolonged periods with deep snow and cold can lead to increased mortality, and with up to four feet of snow on the ground and weeks of bitter cold in some areas this year, those concerns were justified. However, when the snow finally began to melt and winter flocks broke up, folks began to see turkeys in large numbers across the north.”

Fall either-sex harvests can impact turkey populations if hen harvest is excessive, but the number of hens harvested in Wisconsin is very low. Biologists are not concerned that fall harvests will influence turkey populations. Given these low hen harvests and indications from the spring season that turkeys came through winter in decent shape, the advisory committee decided to maintain fall permit availability at 2013 levels.

“In northern zones 6 and 7, hunters harvested just one hen for every 50 to 100 square miles of forest cover last fall,” said Walter. “In some counties, total registered hen harvest was in the single digits – these very low hen harvests are well below the level capable of influencing population abundance.”

According to Scott Walter,

since all permits are utilized in the northern zones, every permit not allocated would lead to one hunter that would not be able to pursue turkeys in that zone in 2014. A permit reduction would provide no benefits for the turkey population, so a reduction in hunting opportunity is not necessary.

In layman terms think of turkeys this way; Turkeys live about 2 and half years whether you hunt them or not.

Most turkey hunters do not realize toms gobble and respond to calls in the fall too.

Most turkey hunters do not realize toms gobble and respond to calls in the fall too.

So even if you did not apply by August 1st for a fall turkey permit you can still purchase over the counter tags when they go on sale August 23.  Successful applicants will be notified by mail the week of August 18.  Hunters who did not apply for the drawing will not a receive a tag with their turkey license, they will need to purchase a tag over the counter.

Turkey Dogs Don’t Ruin Deer Hunting Areas

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The short answer is no.

Turkey-doggers and their dogs don’t usually interfere with bowhunters or ruin their deer hunting.  Turkey dogging is a late morning mid-day activity, and the vast majority of bowhunters have already left the field by the time we start;  although deer hunters should stay on their stands if they see or hear turkey doggers in the area.  Deer have a tendency to bed down during full daylight hours, and as long as the deer don’t move, a stand hunter has little chance of seeing them.  When mobile hunters such as turkey doggers, other small game or upland hunters enter an area, the deer will get up and move around.  Deer are territorial; they do not leave their home range unless there is a lot of disturbance.  If the deer leave, it is a short time before they will return, just like rabbits who circle the beagles and return to where they started.   I see more trophy bucks within easy bow range when Vic is with me than I do sitting on my butt during “prime time.”  Turkey dogs and other hunting dogs are trained not to chase deer.  The dog may occasionally bluff a deer to get it away from the bird hunting area, but they rarely chase the deer for long distances.  vic willow call turkey (640x505)

Some bowhunters get upset about anyone else doing anything else in the woods perhaps it’s they start to feel ownership of a spot after placing their stand.  Or more likely it’s because–
The scent control salespeople and inexperienced outdoor writers have convinced many deer hunters that leaving any scent in the woods will destroy the quality of the hunting area and all the deer will “blowout”.  So they think if anyone walks around without a has-mat suit on the area is contaminated making it impossible for them to kill a deer let alone a trophy.
Oh well, what can I say about these guys? Except you need to get off your stand and out more.  Come on think about it- If deer boogied out of all the areas with human, canine or a scent they don’t recognize, there would be no area holding any deer.  Some scent is everywhere.

Turkey hunters are arguably the most considerate,  sharing and easy to get along with hunters of them all. That goes double for turkey doggers.  If you are sitting on your stand, a turkey dogger comes by, wave, so they know you’re there, and they’ll move out.  Then stay alert, it’s likely a deer, possibly a trophy will be by soon.

Good hunting.

2013 Wisconsin Fall Turkey Harvest – Kill

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WP_20160522_004The 2013 fall wild turkey season is now part of history with many hunters wondering about success across Wisconsin.  Wisconsin fall turkey hunters bagged 4,633 wild turkeys.  This is about 30% fewer fall turkeys than the fall of 2012 which had 6,933 fall turkeys killed by hunters. Click here for 2012.

Here is a peek at Wisconsin’s 2013 fall turkey statics.  Keep in mind these are preliminary numbers and could change slightly in the coming weeks.  Check back for the final numbers, they’ll be updated here as they become available.

First is a table chart showing the wild turkey  harvest by zone, age and sex.  Scroll to the bottom chart for the fall season’s  week by week registrations.

Fall 2013 Turkey Harvest

Fall 2013 Turkey Harvest

The following table shows Wisconsin’s week by week wild turkey registrations.